zaibatsu
March 15th, 2003, 02:20 PM
shady mutha
Frequent Poster
Posts: 149
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 09, 2001 03:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What the hell are glass micro ballons?{kipe2}Has anyone made the n.m plastique?Is it worth making or are you just better off sticking with the tried and true makeshift arsenal annm plastique?And as for that homemade c4 book it is nothing but annm with aluminium added!That ragnar is the biggest fraud out,he is the rehash expert.
Maddoc
Moderator
Posts: 534
From: Somewhere on this earth....
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 09, 2001 05:09 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for that informative and worthwhile post.
Anyone who can read can understand that Ragnars book is just ANNM. But why do you say he is a fraud and Re-hash expert.
Becuase you found it in the "Makeshift" file, chances are that it came from Ragnars book. Ragnar was here first, before "Lowry" and many others, except for Kurt Saxon.
Ragnars video is one of the best I've seen yet, informative, even though only 30 minutes long. You learn everything you need to know.
And some of his books, even though 50% fluff, tell you info. thats good to know like about Springing charges before the main blast.
And instead of making a new thread, and huge long titles, why dont you try it and post the results like Anthony did in his post on KCI03 + Vaseline.
You dont get any Brownie points for telling us what has been said over and over before.
------------------
Whoa, where my fingers?
Stone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 140
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 09, 2001 06:40 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why does he call plasticized ANNM, C4?
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 09, 2001 06:49 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To get people to pick up the book. Everyone knows what C4 is thanks to films, most people don't know what ANNM is, so the book wouldn't catch their eye.
10fingers
Frequent Poster
Posts: 411
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 09, 2001 07:02 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Glass microspheres are used for mixing into epoxy to make it lighter, for model airplanes, etc. It's sold in hobby stores.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 10, 2001 05:12 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've heard, although I've never tried it, that powdered styrofoam (wizz it in a coffee grinder) can be used instead of glass microspheres with similar results.
10fingers
Frequent Poster
Posts: 411
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 10, 2001 07:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, in some of the formulas in KIPE 2 the glass microspheres are replaceable with finely powdered styrofoam. I have not tried it either so I have no idea if it works. Iowa Pyro Supply sells glass microspheres for around $5.00 per lb.
SafetyLast
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From: the cretaceous period
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 11, 2001 01:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you could use the 1mm styrafoam beads in bean bags.
what was the weight ratio for ANNM plastique? I think it was 4 parts powdered AN, 2 parts nitromethane, and 1 part smokeless powder, but I may be wrong.
Heres a few questions:
1. can ANNM plastique be detonated with a .223 casing 3/4 the way full of non packed TCAP?
2. would prilled AN make it more sensitive?
3. how much Aluminum powder does benson say to add?
4. can ping pong balls be used in place of smokeless powder?
5. what is the relative effectiveness of ANNM plastique (compared to TNT)?
I also need to know how it did in the Trazul test.
[This message has been edited by SafetyLast (edited January 11, 2001).]
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 11, 2001 03:29 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Would 1mm beads be small enough? I was under the impression that they needed to be very small.
Prilled AN would probably decrease sensitivity I think, but I've never tried it so I don't know (it wouldn't be able to mix as well with the Al, which is a sensitising agent).
Most recipes I've seen say to add between 2 and 7 % Al powder, the finer the better.
Ping-pong balls would plasticise it, but it would be less sensitive and less powerful than the SP recipe because ping-pong balls are a less nitrated form of NC.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 11, 2001 05:34 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doesn't Prilled AN increase sensitivity because it leaves little air spaces, lowering the density of the mix - the same purpose as adding styrofoam.
How easy is it going to be to reduce styrofoam smaller than it's manufactured particle size? You'd have to sand each individual particle!
One more question, does ANNM need any confinement? Can you mould it around something and stick in a detonator like a true plastique explosive?
SafetyLast
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From: the cretaceous period
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 11, 2001 06:01 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats what I was thinking (with the prills)
but KIPE and Makeshift say to use finely powdered AN for some reason.
It would not need to be confined, but it would definitely be more powerful if it were to be confined. I think the glass microballoons or styrafoam beads could be omitted if prills were used.
you are right about the styrafoam sanding thing because I have tried to make the small styrafoam beads in a bean bag smaller by putting them in a coffee grinder, but all that does is throw them around.
SofaKing
Frequent Poster
Posts: 392
From: YEAH RIGHT !!
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 11, 2001 07:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think styrofoam would work with ANNM because the acetone would disolve it.
------------------
"ARE YOUR PAPERS IN ORDER" -- Jack Booted Thug
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 12, 2001 06:48 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought nitromethane was the only solvent in ANNM? Although even if it was it'd still dissolve the styrofoam so good point!
I think the problem with prills is that the sensitizer cannot soak into them properly. So powdering the AN will allow the NM to soak, increasing sensitivity, then adding glass microspheres lowers the density rasing the sensitivity even further - the best of both worlds.
ST
Frequent Poster
Posts: 100
From: 000
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 12, 2001 07:33 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Im pretty sure NM soaking into the prill wont be a problem, as thats what they are meant to do..
I reckon you could use prills, but lowering the density will mean a drop in VOD, and possibly chuck it instead of detonate it, so confinement may become nessessary, then you might as well have strait ANNM..
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 12, 2001 07:50 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh yeah, hadn't thought of that I suppose the best thing is to follow the instructions, they obviously work. I suppose instead of adding glass microspheres, you could just add a bigger detonator!
10fingers
Frequent Poster
Posts: 411
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 12, 2001 11:50 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Styrofoam doesn't dissolve in nitromethane.
[This message has been edited by 10fingers (edited March 19, 2001).]
SofaKing
Frequent Poster
Posts: 392
From: YEAH RIGHT !!
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 13, 2001 12:41 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was reffering to the acetone used when making ANNM putty, and I forgot that straight ANNM could be used.
------------------
"ARE YOUR PAPERS IN ORDER" -- Jack Booted Thug
Frequent Poster
Posts: 149
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 09, 2001 03:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What the hell are glass micro ballons?{kipe2}Has anyone made the n.m plastique?Is it worth making or are you just better off sticking with the tried and true makeshift arsenal annm plastique?And as for that homemade c4 book it is nothing but annm with aluminium added!That ragnar is the biggest fraud out,he is the rehash expert.
Maddoc
Moderator
Posts: 534
From: Somewhere on this earth....
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 09, 2001 05:09 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for that informative and worthwhile post.
Anyone who can read can understand that Ragnars book is just ANNM. But why do you say he is a fraud and Re-hash expert.
Becuase you found it in the "Makeshift" file, chances are that it came from Ragnars book. Ragnar was here first, before "Lowry" and many others, except for Kurt Saxon.
Ragnars video is one of the best I've seen yet, informative, even though only 30 minutes long. You learn everything you need to know.
And some of his books, even though 50% fluff, tell you info. thats good to know like about Springing charges before the main blast.
And instead of making a new thread, and huge long titles, why dont you try it and post the results like Anthony did in his post on KCI03 + Vaseline.
You dont get any Brownie points for telling us what has been said over and over before.
------------------
Whoa, where my fingers?
Stone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 140
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 09, 2001 06:40 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why does he call plasticized ANNM, C4?
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 09, 2001 06:49 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To get people to pick up the book. Everyone knows what C4 is thanks to films, most people don't know what ANNM is, so the book wouldn't catch their eye.
10fingers
Frequent Poster
Posts: 411
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 09, 2001 07:02 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Glass microspheres are used for mixing into epoxy to make it lighter, for model airplanes, etc. It's sold in hobby stores.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 10, 2001 05:12 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've heard, although I've never tried it, that powdered styrofoam (wizz it in a coffee grinder) can be used instead of glass microspheres with similar results.
10fingers
Frequent Poster
Posts: 411
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 10, 2001 07:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, in some of the formulas in KIPE 2 the glass microspheres are replaceable with finely powdered styrofoam. I have not tried it either so I have no idea if it works. Iowa Pyro Supply sells glass microspheres for around $5.00 per lb.
SafetyLast
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From: the cretaceous period
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 11, 2001 01:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you could use the 1mm styrafoam beads in bean bags.
what was the weight ratio for ANNM plastique? I think it was 4 parts powdered AN, 2 parts nitromethane, and 1 part smokeless powder, but I may be wrong.
Heres a few questions:
1. can ANNM plastique be detonated with a .223 casing 3/4 the way full of non packed TCAP?
2. would prilled AN make it more sensitive?
3. how much Aluminum powder does benson say to add?
4. can ping pong balls be used in place of smokeless powder?
5. what is the relative effectiveness of ANNM plastique (compared to TNT)?
I also need to know how it did in the Trazul test.
[This message has been edited by SafetyLast (edited January 11, 2001).]
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 11, 2001 03:29 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Would 1mm beads be small enough? I was under the impression that they needed to be very small.
Prilled AN would probably decrease sensitivity I think, but I've never tried it so I don't know (it wouldn't be able to mix as well with the Al, which is a sensitising agent).
Most recipes I've seen say to add between 2 and 7 % Al powder, the finer the better.
Ping-pong balls would plasticise it, but it would be less sensitive and less powerful than the SP recipe because ping-pong balls are a less nitrated form of NC.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 11, 2001 05:34 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doesn't Prilled AN increase sensitivity because it leaves little air spaces, lowering the density of the mix - the same purpose as adding styrofoam.
How easy is it going to be to reduce styrofoam smaller than it's manufactured particle size? You'd have to sand each individual particle!
One more question, does ANNM need any confinement? Can you mould it around something and stick in a detonator like a true plastique explosive?
SafetyLast
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From: the cretaceous period
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 11, 2001 06:01 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats what I was thinking (with the prills)
but KIPE and Makeshift say to use finely powdered AN for some reason.
It would not need to be confined, but it would definitely be more powerful if it were to be confined. I think the glass microballoons or styrafoam beads could be omitted if prills were used.
you are right about the styrafoam sanding thing because I have tried to make the small styrafoam beads in a bean bag smaller by putting them in a coffee grinder, but all that does is throw them around.
SofaKing
Frequent Poster
Posts: 392
From: YEAH RIGHT !!
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 11, 2001 07:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think styrofoam would work with ANNM because the acetone would disolve it.
------------------
"ARE YOUR PAPERS IN ORDER" -- Jack Booted Thug
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 12, 2001 06:48 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought nitromethane was the only solvent in ANNM? Although even if it was it'd still dissolve the styrofoam so good point!
I think the problem with prills is that the sensitizer cannot soak into them properly. So powdering the AN will allow the NM to soak, increasing sensitivity, then adding glass microspheres lowers the density rasing the sensitivity even further - the best of both worlds.
ST
Frequent Poster
Posts: 100
From: 000
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 12, 2001 07:33 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Im pretty sure NM soaking into the prill wont be a problem, as thats what they are meant to do..
I reckon you could use prills, but lowering the density will mean a drop in VOD, and possibly chuck it instead of detonate it, so confinement may become nessessary, then you might as well have strait ANNM..
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 12, 2001 07:50 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh yeah, hadn't thought of that I suppose the best thing is to follow the instructions, they obviously work. I suppose instead of adding glass microspheres, you could just add a bigger detonator!
10fingers
Frequent Poster
Posts: 411
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 12, 2001 11:50 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Styrofoam doesn't dissolve in nitromethane.
[This message has been edited by 10fingers (edited March 19, 2001).]
SofaKing
Frequent Poster
Posts: 392
From: YEAH RIGHT !!
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 13, 2001 12:41 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was reffering to the acetone used when making ANNM putty, and I forgot that straight ANNM could be used.
------------------
"ARE YOUR PAPERS IN ORDER" -- Jack Booted Thug