zaibatsu
March 15th, 2003, 02:54 PM
atropine
Frequent Poster
Posts: 129
From: wales
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 18, 2001 01:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have recently bought 10 litres of H2SO4 from B&Q with no trouble. But i was wondering if it would be more usefull to by sodium or potassium nitrate, sodium nitrate bieng better as in nitration and potassium nitrate bieng better as an oxidiser. Oh yeah thanks to this forum I have made the biggest bang ever. A catering size can of beans, with a 2 inch hole drilled in top. Removed beans, Filled it with ANNM and used a HMTD detonator. And ignited it perfectly with a KNO3+sugar fuse cord.
------------------
# all wize men have unwize fantasies <^
# >
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 18, 2001 02:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What conc was the NM you used and where did you get it?
Sodium nitrate is really quite useless as an oxidiser, how about getting both and using each for different purposes?
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 18, 2001 02:48 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buying both would probably be best, but if you're getting them both from a garden centre or somewhere that might get suspicious, you could buy lots of NaNO3 and convert some of it to KNO3 with "Lo-salt", which is 66% KCl and the rest is salt.
Why am I the only one who can't get H2SO4 at my local B&Q?!?!?! I think it must be a curse of some sort.
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 19, 2001 02:20 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr Cool;are there any smaller,non-chain hardware stores around your area?.Many of these places(at least in the U.S.!)carry better stuff than the big-name stores.My local Lowes(our equivalent to B&Q)carries 'blended' sulfuric(looks like jelled mud!),but at a 'Mom and Pop'store a block away I bought a quart of clear,95% H2S04 for $6.50.Good luck,hope you find something!.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 20, 2001 07:59 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, there is a small one near me, and I've just come back from there! They didn't have H2SO4 either, but they did have 2.5 L of 35% HCl for £3.59, so I bought some of that for HMTD. I suppose they might be able to order some H2SO4 for me, so I'll ask next time.
Smartguy
A new voice
Posts: 11
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 20, 2001 10:29 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Cool:
You use HCl to make HMTD??
I'm interested: would you tell me how?
(I know about citric acid...but HCl?)
atropine
Frequent Poster
Posts: 129
From: wales
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 21, 2001 05:45 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The NM was 100% from a local model shop. £14 a quart. I tried HCL for HMTD and the yeild is vastly superior. And all this bull about AP bieng easier to make than HMTD. Ive bin making HMTD for around a year and have had only one batch fail me. Concider that.
Plants
------------------
# all wize men have unwize fantasies <^
# >
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 21, 2001 07:34 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For every 14 grams of hexamine (14 grams = 1/10th of a mole), 3.4 grams of ammonia is made, and this must be neutralised. 1 mole of ammonia reacts with 1 mole of HCl, and 3.4 grams of ammonia is 1/5th of a mole. Therefore, you need 1/5th of a mole of HCl, plus a bit extra. That is 7.3 grams of pure HCl, so if you're using 35% w/w, you need 7.3/35 * 100 grams of it, or 20.8 grams.
So use about 25 grams of 35% HCl for every 14 grams of hexamine, and 40 grams of 30% H2O2.
Cool it to 0*C or below during the reaction, but don't let it freeze. Yield is very high, usually about 70% of the theoretical yield, so you get about 15 grams of HMTD for every 14 grams of hexamine.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 21, 2001 11:38 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks, I'll have to try another model shop, the last one no longer stocked or could get 100% nitro.
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 765
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 21, 2001 02:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
70% of the Theoretical Yeild is about as high as you can Expect. It is almost Impossible to get 100% yield or the theoretical Yeild(or very close to it, for that matter).
------------------
A wise man once said:
"... As He Waits For The Time When The Last Become First And,
The First Shall Become last"
--RATM
Agent Blak-------OUT!!
Frequent Poster
Posts: 129
From: wales
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 18, 2001 01:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have recently bought 10 litres of H2SO4 from B&Q with no trouble. But i was wondering if it would be more usefull to by sodium or potassium nitrate, sodium nitrate bieng better as in nitration and potassium nitrate bieng better as an oxidiser. Oh yeah thanks to this forum I have made the biggest bang ever. A catering size can of beans, with a 2 inch hole drilled in top. Removed beans, Filled it with ANNM and used a HMTD detonator. And ignited it perfectly with a KNO3+sugar fuse cord.
------------------
# all wize men have unwize fantasies <^
# >
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 18, 2001 02:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What conc was the NM you used and where did you get it?
Sodium nitrate is really quite useless as an oxidiser, how about getting both and using each for different purposes?
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 18, 2001 02:48 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buying both would probably be best, but if you're getting them both from a garden centre or somewhere that might get suspicious, you could buy lots of NaNO3 and convert some of it to KNO3 with "Lo-salt", which is 66% KCl and the rest is salt.
Why am I the only one who can't get H2SO4 at my local B&Q?!?!?! I think it must be a curse of some sort.
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 19, 2001 02:20 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr Cool;are there any smaller,non-chain hardware stores around your area?.Many of these places(at least in the U.S.!)carry better stuff than the big-name stores.My local Lowes(our equivalent to B&Q)carries 'blended' sulfuric(looks like jelled mud!),but at a 'Mom and Pop'store a block away I bought a quart of clear,95% H2S04 for $6.50.Good luck,hope you find something!.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 20, 2001 07:59 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, there is a small one near me, and I've just come back from there! They didn't have H2SO4 either, but they did have 2.5 L of 35% HCl for £3.59, so I bought some of that for HMTD. I suppose they might be able to order some H2SO4 for me, so I'll ask next time.
Smartguy
A new voice
Posts: 11
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 20, 2001 10:29 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Cool:
You use HCl to make HMTD??
I'm interested: would you tell me how?
(I know about citric acid...but HCl?)
atropine
Frequent Poster
Posts: 129
From: wales
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 21, 2001 05:45 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The NM was 100% from a local model shop. £14 a quart. I tried HCL for HMTD and the yeild is vastly superior. And all this bull about AP bieng easier to make than HMTD. Ive bin making HMTD for around a year and have had only one batch fail me. Concider that.
Plants
------------------
# all wize men have unwize fantasies <^
# >
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 21, 2001 07:34 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For every 14 grams of hexamine (14 grams = 1/10th of a mole), 3.4 grams of ammonia is made, and this must be neutralised. 1 mole of ammonia reacts with 1 mole of HCl, and 3.4 grams of ammonia is 1/5th of a mole. Therefore, you need 1/5th of a mole of HCl, plus a bit extra. That is 7.3 grams of pure HCl, so if you're using 35% w/w, you need 7.3/35 * 100 grams of it, or 20.8 grams.
So use about 25 grams of 35% HCl for every 14 grams of hexamine, and 40 grams of 30% H2O2.
Cool it to 0*C or below during the reaction, but don't let it freeze. Yield is very high, usually about 70% of the theoretical yield, so you get about 15 grams of HMTD for every 14 grams of hexamine.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 21, 2001 11:38 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks, I'll have to try another model shop, the last one no longer stocked or could get 100% nitro.
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 765
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 21, 2001 02:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
70% of the Theoretical Yeild is about as high as you can Expect. It is almost Impossible to get 100% yield or the theoretical Yeild(or very close to it, for that matter).
------------------
A wise man once said:
"... As He Waits For The Time When The Last Become First And,
The First Shall Become last"
--RATM
Agent Blak-------OUT!!