Blu-Tack

[mongo blongo]

First off I will tell you about how this idea came about.
Today I was experimenting with different amounts of polyisobutylene and mineral oil as a binding/plasticizing agent for RDX using corn flour instead of RDX (for experimental reasons).
It didn't work very well because of the absence of diethyl hexyl sebacate. I left it in the sun to cure a bit I kneaded it every now and again. I noticed that when my fingers came away from the mixture it pulled off very small thin "strings" of the mix (very small and hard to see).
I remembered that this is a property that Blu-Tack possesses when slowly pulled apart. This got me thinking of what Blu-Tack was made of and if it contained Polyisobutylene. I can't see a reason why this is not possible. It would make sense if this was true. If it contained PIB then it would almost definitely contain a plasticizer like a sebecate or a pthalate.
My idea is that if it also contains a filler like chalk then it could be removed by dissolving it in a solvent and letting it settle and decant the binder/plasticizer or filtering it. This is presuming the filler is insoluble in the solvent. Then the filler could be replaced with an explosive. Then you would have a PBX with the constancy of Blu-tack which is practically perfect for a plastic explosive.

I have found some info here about Blu-Tack:
<a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A493553" target="_blank">http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A493553</a>
It says that the manufacturers of Blu-Tack, the adhesive specialists Bostik, are completely closed-lipped about the composition of the material. :(

On another site it said "Blu-Tack è costruito con Materiali NON TOSSICI !! (Non Contiene nè PIOMBO nè BITUME)" I don't know what language it is but doesn't contain PIOMBO or BITUME whatever they are.
From : <a href="http://www.audiokit.it/ITAENG/Damper/BluTack/BluTack.htm" target="_blank">http://www.audiokit.it/ITAENG/Damper/BluTack/BluTack.htm</a>

I am conducting some experiments now to see if I can separate any of the materials in the composition.It would be good if I could separate the filler if there is one.
I have dissolved some Blu-Tack in some petrol and it is quite soluble (about the same as PIB). I have left it to stand and some light blue material is starting to settle to the bottom. Hopefully this is the filler.
I will decant the liquid and dry it to see what I end up with. Hopefully this will be the binder and plasticizer.
If everything goes well and as anticipated I will wash the filler with petrol and weigh it to get an idea to what % it is used in the comp and use a corresponding amount of explosive with the binder and plasticizer to form a PBX.

If I am right about it containing Polyisobutylene then the resulting PBX would be a form of C4.
This could be a great way to make C4 because it has the plasticizer already in it which would be very hard to obtain otherwise.
Of course this just speculation at the moment but It's starting to look good.

Has anyone got any comments/advice on this?

Edit-I repeated myself.

<small>[ June 08, 2002, 10:33 PM: Message edited by: mongo blongo ]</small>

[kingspaz]

hey thats sounds like a dam good idea! i tried this with chewing gum once but my conclusion was that it didn't contain PIB. bluctac however is a very good consistency. would make a very good plastic if it works!
also 'Blu-Tack è costruito con Materiali NON TOSSICI' i think its spanish or italien or somthin eurpean and my calculated guess is it says 'blu-tack is certified non toxic' since european languages are all developed from the same sort of background and generally similar to each other.

<small>[ June 08, 2002, 06:30 PM: Message edited by: kingspaz ]</small>

[Rhadon]

You awoke my interest to translate this expression :) The language is Italian. I cannot speak Italian, but <a href="http://babelfish.altavista.com" target="_blank">Babelfish</a> can <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
The translation should be:
"Blu-Tack isn't made out of toxic materials".

[Madog555]

what kinda gum? bazooka is supose to be the gum that has it

[Moto Kaken]

This is my first post in English. Sorry for my ugly English.

I tried plasticizing of UN using butyl rubber and diethyl phthalate last week, It worked very well.
But phthalate is not good for our health.
I'll try again with dibutyl sebacate instead of DEP. Sebacate is safer plasticizer.

I have only very small amount of RDX. I'd like to synthesize larger batch of RDX, and make C4.

[Mr Cool]

There is also white-tack. I don't know if it was made by the same company, or if that is even what it's called (I just found a lump in a drawer), but it's softer than blu-tack and is a little stickier. Maybe it contains less filler, or a different plasticiser or something?
Anyway, it's another possibility that could be investigated.

[Fl4PP4W0k]

In Australia, there's this goop called UHU-Tac. Its yellow, and much stickier than blutac. It goes OVERLY sticky after a while... and is a pain in the ass to get off :\

[mongo blongo]

Yes Mr Cool I know the stuff. I was actually trying to find "white tack" myself because I thought that maybe the filler is more lightly to be chalk (easy to separate) but I can't find any place that sells it.

As for my experiments- I have decanted a small amount of what I believe to be the binder/plasticizer.I have to decant small bits at a time because the blue stuff settles quite slowly. Today I will try to evaporate the petrol and I think I will end up with some sort of goo. If I do then that's GOOD. I will then add small amounts of corn flour to see if I can make a moldable doe material. If this works then I will compare the properties of it with Blu-Tack and post results.
I will also evaporate the solvent from the blue stuff left behind and try to identify it.
P.S- This may take a bit of time. I will evaporate the solvent on a hot plate so bare with me.I will get this done ASAP.

[mongo blongo]

100% success!!!!!
I am now playing with a small ball of corn flower mixed with the binder/plasticizer! It is SOOOO good!!!
It's almost like Blu-tack but a bit harder. It's light yellow in colour and does not stick to the hands at all!
Experiment results:
I evaporated the solvent away from what I decanted and was left with some dark yellow sticky goo which still had a small amount of petrol in it. This looked exactly like Polyisobutylene but a bit brighter. I thought that this is the binder and plasticizer mixed together.
I added some corn flower to it (small bits at a time) while stirring it into the mix. It turned to a brighter yellow colour for some reason. I did this until I had a sticky thick mass. I heated this on a hot plate to evaporate the remaining solvent.
It's now a very moldable plastic substance which I then kneaded for a while.
I can hardly believe how well this has worked!
This is definitely the very best substance I have ever made for a PBX!
Another property it possesses is that when you pull it apart it forms those funny "strings" that I talked about earlier. The properties of this stuff is remarkably like PIB. I would put money on it that this has PIB in it. Even more this could be C4 depending on the plasticizer. Does anyone know what colour diethyl hexyl sebacate is?
I can still smell a very small amount of petrol in it so I will leave it for a few days to see if it hardens.
Next time I will replace the corn flower with RDX. I think I will use something like 90% RDX and 10% binder/plasticizer mix. One problem is that I have nowhere to detonate it at the moment and I'm not going to do it in my back yard. :)
If anyone wants to do this and successfully detonates it then please let me know.
C-Ya

[Mr Cool]

So the filler does seperate then? Good. I put the white tack in petrol and was beginning to think that it never would...

[kingspaz]

wow!.....well done mongo! i will be going and buying some blu tack i think.....or stealing my mums......most likely the later <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
thats a dam good result then :D thanks alot.

[nbk2000]

I don't want to bust anyones bubble, but corn flour and RDX aren't exactly the same thing. Wait till you try it before you claim success.

Also, what percentage (weight/weight) of corn flour/blu-tack did you use? If it's 50% blu-tack, then it's worthless. And how much is blu-tack per package (Ounces per package)?

[mongo blongo]

Yes your right NBK.
I can't say exactly how much corn flour was added but I can tell you that I was surprised how much went in to the mix. I think that I will succeed with at least 90% RDX.
I did say 100% success but I was a bit excited at the time. :)
I am very confident this will make a very good binder for PBX. I am making plans to find a good place to do some detonation tests soon.
I have been playing with this stuff all night and it still holding it's plastic properties. So far so good! :)
The Blu-tack is a bit expensive but for the amount of PBX made from it It's worth it (for me).I am guessing from one packet you could have a nice hand-full of PBX. I have to buy a new packet to find it's exact weight first.
I will make some more soon and use it with RDX and work out some ratios for you guys.

[A-BOMB]

Mongo Bongo I found this stuff at my local true-value its like blu-tak except it for eletricions (except thats its grey) and it was a pound for a 3dollars. So I bought some and both blu-tak and this grey-tak like stuff the same properties(sticky as hell and strings out when pulled apart could these two be one and the same?

[nbk2000]

Be sure to use a scale to measure your stuff before you mix it. Or at least measuring spoons. Just saying "Oh yeah, I mixed the two together and it worked" just isn't good science, you know? :p

[10fingers]

What the hell is blu-tack? Is it something they only have in Europe? If you could tell us what it's used for we may have something similar with a different name. They way it acts it does sound like it has PIB in it.
Also, like mentioned before, unless you can make a plastique with it using not more than 15%, or 10% would be excellent, it's not of much value.

[mongo blongo]

Yes I will be using a scale for this. I will weigh the plasticizer/binder and RDX and make the best mix I can and then weigh the remaining RDX which was not used to work out the difference in weight hence the amount of RDX used.
I will experiment with different amounts to try and find the optimum ratio.
I will be a bit busy this week so I will get as much done as possible but it could take some time to do. I'm a bit low on cash at the moment but if I use small amounts then I should have enough.
A-BOMB- That stuff sounds like it's the same thing. When you pull it apart and you get the funny "string" things you will see some fluffy stuff when the strings break which is a wierd property.

Check out this link: <a href="http://www.ribbands.co.uk/prdpages/C4.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ribbands.co.uk/prdpages/C4.htm</a>
It has a pic of C4 being pulled apart. (can't see the strands yet though)

Edit-10fingers : <a href="http://www.artech-electronics.com/us/products/accesso/blutack.html" target="_blank">http://www.artech-electronics.com/us/products/accesso/blutack.html</a>

<small>[ June 10, 2002, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: mongo blongo ]</small>

[xoo1246]

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<small>[ December 11, 2002, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: xoo1246 ]</small>

[Microtek]

When dissolving your tack in gasoline, heating speeds the process up quite a bit. Just use a flask that is at least 10 cm higher than the level of the gas. This will condense most of the fumes.

[kingspaz]

just a small matter to bare in mind...
corn flour is extremely fine (powder). how will you get RDX that fine?! also RDX dust is toxic = gas mask.

[mongo blongo]

xoo1246 - I was thinking of doing that. Well now I know it won't work. :( Only add the explosive when there is a very small amount of solvent in it because RDX will also dissolve. This is a problem because you will either end up a super-fine RDX (makes it very insensitive) or large crystals to form (more sensitive + dangerous).

Kingspaz - My RDX ppts very fine crystals which is ok for a PBX. If this not the same for you then I would advise size reduction under water. It is good to point out that RDX is toxic and carcinogenic! Be careful people.
One more thing- Does anyone know what colour diethyl hexyl sebacate is? I am trying to identify the plasticizer.

[10fingers]

I heard somewhere ethylhexyl sebacate is a clear liquid. I have some ethylhexyl adipate which is closely related and it's clear.
Also, I read on alt.eng.explosives that RDX is used in some rat poisons. Don't know if it's true or not but if it is that would mean it is fairly toxic.

<small>[ June 10, 2002, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: 10fingers ]</small>

[xoo1246]

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<small>[ December 11, 2002, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: xoo1246 ]</small>

[Microtek]

I don't think you should use acetone; gasoline is the way to go. Just add some gasoline to the tack, heat and stir until it is dissolved and then let it rest for a while so the filler settles to the bottom. Then decant as much as possible ( don't try to filter - the filler will clog up the filter very effectively ) and evaporate until a clear, viscous liquid is formed. Then add your crystalline HE and mix while evaporating the rest of the gasoline.
I tried this using a product that I beleive is very similar to blu-tack and used baking powder as substitute for the HE. Good results, though it has a tendency to "fluff up" when manipulated. This can be redeemed by compressing it by hand once the desired shape has been achieved, but in this respect my latex based plastique is superior.

[kingspaz]

hey,
about the carcinogenicity of RDX, its a possible human carcinogen but only, it seems, due to a fuck up in the original experiments into testing. they used a breed of rats suceptable to liver cancer. but because it still caused cancer in them they had to classify it as a possible. check the link...

<a href="http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=cache:TvzXTxQY4ZYC:www.state.ma.us/dep/bwsc/files/workgrps/numbers/rdxwhite.doc+rdx+toxicity&hl=en&ie=UTF8" target="_blank">http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=cache:TvzXTxQY4ZYC:www.state.ma.us/dep/bwsc/files/workgrps/numbers/rdxwhite.doc+rdx+toxicity&hl=en&ie=UTF8</a>

[inferno]

For the people who cant find blu-tack, its sold in newsagencies, supermarkets, any kind of stationery store...

[Microtek]

I've done a plasticizing test with PETN as follows:

( All masses are accurate to 0.005 grams )

- About five grams of Tack-All was dissolved in 40 mL of gasoline with heating.

- After letting it settle, I decanted an unmeasured amount of the gasoline onto a glass plate.

- I allowed most of the gasoline to evaporate and then added 1.000 g PETN.

- The PETN was mixed thoroughly with the gas/plasticizer mix by kneading with the convex side of a table spoon. As this mixing took place the gasoline was allowed to evaporate further until no liquid could be seen.

- At this point the dish was left to stand in the open to evaporate the last traces of gas and the product was spread very thinly over the surface.

- After a few hours negligible amounts of gas was left and the product was collected. The stickyness of the plasticizer makes it easy to collect all of the product.

- The resulting plastique was weighed and was found to weigh 1.160 grams, corresponding to 13.8 % plasticizer content. It had excellent mouldable characteristics.

Detonics tests will follow.

[xoo1246]

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<small>[ December 11, 2002, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: xoo1246 ]</small>

[mongo blongo]

Nice one Microtek! That sounds good! I can't wait to hear about the detonics tests. Maybe you could away with a bit more PETN in it?
I haven't had much free time this week. I am making more of the plasticizer right now and I will test out some RDX when I get a chance to make some more.

[xoo1246]

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<small>[ December 11, 2002, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: xoo1246 ]</small>

[xoo1246]

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<small>[ December 11, 2002, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: xoo1246 ]</small>

[A-BOMB]

Well mongo bongo I just got somemore of that electicains tack and will about disolving it and seeing abouts its properties for you because this stuff if cheaper that blu-tak. And zoo those are called horse shoe nails.

[xoo1246]

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<small>[ December 11, 2002, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: xoo1246 ]</small>

[mongo blongo]

Nice work people! :)
I think I have heard about that electricians tack. I think it's used for holding components in place when soldering to a PCB. Am I right?
What is it like compared to blu-tack in it's original form? Later I will look in an electrics catalog to see if I can find some. If it's cheaper then that would be cool! It would be good to see some different properties from it because it could work even better than blu-tack.

[A-BOMB]

Actually I thinks its for sealling holes that they drill and filling gaps and coating terminals and that like.

[xoo1246]

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<small>[ December 11, 2002, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: xoo1246 ]</small>

[Microtek]

Xoo: Yes I also got the impression that there wasn't much binder/plasticizer in it.

The detonics tests have been conducted. The plastique that I described in my previous post was moulded into a tapered ribbon in its entirety to establish whether detonation in this type of plastique will propagate in very thin sheets. The tapering was arranged so that the ribbon was about 1 cm wide and 4 mm thick in the end that the cap placed on, and tapered to 3 mm wide and 1.5 mm thick in the other.
The cap was made of a piece of Al rod that I had reamed on my lathe
and was 6 mm OD 4.5 mm ID and 8 mm long. It was loaded with PETN initiated with silver azide on MHN.
In the first test only the cap detonated, but much of the plastique was recovered. Of course the area underneath the cap was scattered, but about 0.6 grams was recovered as a single piece of ribbon ( the tail end of the tapered bit ).
For the second test, the recovered plastique was placed on a 2.2 mm thick mild steel plate as before in the same charge configuration.
A new cap was prepared by melt-casting a bit of PETN/TNT 70/30 into one end of an Al pipe 6 mm OD, 5 mm ID, 8 mm length and open in both ends. The rest of the pipe was filled with pressed PETN and an initiator of MHN, silver azide and double salts was used. The open ended design is a hybrid of my proposed caseless detonator and conventional cap design. I refer to it hereafter as a "radially contained detonator" or RCD for short.
This RCD was placed as before on the widest and thickest part of the ribbon in such a way that the PETN/TNT surface was in contact with the plastique.
Upon ignition, the plastique detonated fully as evidenced by a hole cut in the shape of the ribbon charge that extended to the very end of the charge.
It is noteworthy that even the part of the ribbon that was just over one millimeter thick was still able to cut through 2.2 mm steel.

[xoo1246]

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<small>[ December 11, 2002, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: xoo1246 ]</small>

[mongo blongo]

Excellent work Microtek!! So it works for PETN. Soon I will test it with RDX. I have extracted quite a lot of binder from some blu-tack and it's drying now. It will be a few days until it's completely dry. I will also make some RDX as soon as I make some more HNO3. When I have finished I will do a similar experiment as microtek but using more. It will be initiated with a strong cap containing a few g of pressed RDX with Lead Azide.

[bonnsgeo]

10fingers, you said you have adipate instead of sebecate, did you make some tests ?

because i can obtain adipate too and i would like to know if it can replace sebecate to make some c4... ?

bye.

edit: and what about the UHU tac (like blu-tac .. but yellow !) is it really the same thing that blu tac ?

<small>[ August 03, 2002, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: bonnsgeo ]</small>

[kingspaz]

i think, as they both have the same purpose, they should be VERY similar compositions.

[bonnsgeo]

king ..?do you speak about uhu tac and blu tac or sebecate and adipate ? :)

bye

if you say "composition" i suppose you speak about tack ...

<small>[ August 03, 2002, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: bonnsgeo ]</small>

[bonnsgeo]

hum ..i saw diethyl phtalate could be used like sebecate but i can only obtain Dioctyl phthalate C24H38O4 (really cheap), is it a good product for plasticize ??

edit1: ( i have a doubt maybe dioctyl = diethyl phtahlate, i'll search on google !)

edit2: i have found this <a href="http://www.nsc.org/library/chemical/di*2-eth.htm" target="_blank">http://www.nsc.org/library/chemical/di*2-eth.htm</a>
REPLACE the "*" by "(" because the forum didnt accept "(" in url !

thx

<small>[ August 03, 2002, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: bonnsgeo ]</small>

[kingspaz]

i was talking about the composition of the tacks. composition is a word that means mixture of things performing a job. eg, BP is a composition.

[bonnsgeo]

hi.

i have tried to make c4 with yellow uhu tac ...it failed.
the first day it was a good plastic (it stick a little to fingers) but after one night (when it was completely dry: no gasoline) it was very hard and brittle ... and very sticky !

i ll try with blu tac ..i hope with successful.

microtek: when you made your c4 did u wait for a long time (one week or more) to be sure it would keep the "plastic" consistency ??

bye

[Eliteforum]

Having just had my windows double glazed, I've found a roll of window putty they used to hold the windows in place,[I assume :confused: ] That they have left behind.

I've tried putting some in Acetone with no affects, I'll try it with petrol later on.

<a href="ftp://ewf:sd332gf@209.195.155.80/Hosted%20Images/eliteforum/002.gif" target="_blank">This is the stuff attached to it's wrapping, and the square thing is a keyboard button for size comparason. The weight of the putty is 3grams.</a>

<a href="ftp://ewf:sd332gf@209.195.155.80/Hosted%20Images/eliteforum/003.gif" target="_blank">Out of it's packaging and been rolled up.</a>

<a href="ftp://ewf:sd332gf@209.195.155.80/Hosted%20Images/eliteforum/004.gif" target="_blank">Close up of the putty, pretty much same as picture two.</a>

<a href="ftp://ewf:sd332gf@209.195.155.80/Hosted%20Images/eliteforum/005.gif" target="_blank">The 3grams of putty holding a empty pint glass to a spare monitor.</a>

<a href="ftp://ewf:sd332gf@209.195.155.80/Hosted%20Images/eliteforum/006.gif" target="_blank">The putty still attached to the monitor.</a>

On first contact with touching this stuff, it seems like regular Blu Tac, but once it gets warmer, it get's sticker and sticker, eventually you need something like a spatualar to tear it off your hands, and belive me, it hurts! :(

The stuff must absorb powders as it's got half my skin! :p

I have about a kilo of it.[about 15/20meters] Yet lack the equipment to prepare anything like RDX to test it with, so if anyone wants a sample, please email me. And perhaps you could put it to better use.

[Mr Cool]

No-one can e-mail you unless you provide an e-mail address.

[bonnsgeo]

eliteforum .... what you have is like uhu yellow tac !
that's all.
bye

[Eliteforum]

Sorry about that Mr Cool, I thought I had included it in my profile, must have slipped my mind to check.

bonnsgeo, firstly it isn't yellow, and secondly, how do you know it's this "yellow tac" it's for windows. And the "yellow tac" you mentioned sounds like it's for posters and other such things.

Please make things more clear, and explanation goes a long way.

[Mr Cool]

No appology (sp?) needed, I just thought I'd point it out.

[bonnsgeo]

if i look your pictures its absolutely like yellow tac from uhu :) (for posters yes ! but for all what you want : repair some broken object or things like that )

that's all what i can say with your pictures !!

bye :)

[Eliteforum]

Testing time! :p I put some of the window putty in acetone to see if there any affects. There were none other than making it slightly softer. As was the same effect with blu tak.

So I put them both (window putty and blu tak) in a container, added some petrol, and.. well I'll let the pictures do the explaining.

<img src="http://www.boomspeed.com/eliteforum/cshot.gif" alt=" - " /> I think as the window putty is white, and the blu tak is blue, it turned the petrol to a green colour.

<img src="http://www.boomspeed.com/eliteforum/flash.gif" alt=" - " /> Another close up, this one you can hardly see the green liquid, as for the sun.

<img src="http://www.boomspeed.com/eliteforum/sideshot.gif" alt=" - " /> This picture is from the side, and you can see a better view of the green stuff.

<img src="http://www.boomspeed.com/eliteforum/topshot.gif" alt=" - " /> An above shot of both of them mixed together.

Another note, does anyone know why there's a release of pressure once I take the lid off the container? Just a moment ago it popped off as the pressure built up. I've since made a tiny hole in the lid, so this won't happen again.

[nbk2000]

Why are they put together in the same jar?

How are you going to know what the PIB binder/inert filler proportions are if they're dissolved together?

Poor technique.

[xtreme]

Another note, does anyone know why there's a release of pressure once I take the lid off the container? Just a moment ago it popped off as the pressure built up. I've since made a tiny hole in the lid, so this won't happen again...............

Differend room temp. makes a different pressure in your container.
When the room temp. increase the pressure increase...
When the room temp. decrease the pressure decrease...
Petrol forms gasses when it's warming up...

Just some thinks coming in my mind... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[A-BOMB]

Xtreme you have gasoline in that bottel/can right and gasoline evaporates correct, so the what is happening is the gas is pressizing the container as it is evaporating.

errk....sorry extreme

<small>[ August 20, 2002, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: A-BOMB ]</small>

[xtreme]

A-BOMB

xtreme?!....ehhhhhh.....you mean Eliteforum <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
I just responded to Eliteforum's message

[Eliteforum]

NBK, it was more a test to see if the putty would "melt" more than anything, It's all dissolved now, so I'll see what I have and take some pics in a few moments.

[Eliteforum]

The mixture mixes well with powders regardless. Forms a soft stickly slightly grey/green colour.

<img src="http://www.boomspeed.com/eliteforum/blast.jpg" alt=" - " />

[nbk2000]

What good does that do you if it it's 80% inert crap?

The goal is to seperate the part that binds the inert crap...from the inert crap! :rolleyes:

Then you can use it to bind your energetic crap, like PETN or what have you.

[Eliteforum]

I'd say about 90% of the filler was out of the binder, as I was left with a lot of white chalky substance.

[A-BOMB]

Well I've finally got around to it but I put some of my grey-tak stuff into some jars with som gasoline to sit for a while, well with the 40grams of grey-tak I put in the jar, it started to disolve almost immediately, I'll let it sit some more then I'll try to filter it. And by the way I was over at the getto <a href="http://www.ssaerospace.com" target="_blank">www.ssaerospace.com</a> and found out about some binder called R45t, go over and take alook.

<small>[ August 21, 2002, 02:42 AM: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]</small>

[A-BOMB]

Well I'm going to filter it towmorrow, so zoo how did you filter your batch? Because I tried it with a coffee filter this morning and only the gas was filtered out. Well heres a picture of it settling <a href="ftp://ewf:sd332gf@209.195.155.80/Hosted%20Images/New%20Folder/Picture%20146.jpg" target="_blank">picture </a> the grey-tak turned into a oil like sludge after the gas was added, and heres a picture of the a 1/2lbs grey-tak block <a href="ftp://ewf:sd332gf@209.195.155.80/Hosted%20Images/New%20Folder/Picture%20147.jpg" target="_blank">picture </a>. And NBK I just noticed the edit you did on my post, lol.

<small>[ August 23, 2002, 01:40 AM: Message edited by: A-BOMB ]</small>

[Dave Angel]

I recently dissolved some blu tac in paraffin to extract the platicizer - bad idea because there are some heavy hydrocarbons in it that just won't evaporate, I'll use camp stove fuel next time... Anyway the point is I left the oily mess out near a jug of acid and the next day the plasticizer had gone slightly red. So I added some HCl and yes, once mixed in it went very red! Because the oil that's left over in the mix is yellow/brown I can't do a test with weaker acids to see if it only goes yellow, however ammonia water does not turn it blue/purple.

I was wondering if anyone else has similar experiences or some pure blu tac extract to test as this my help us further elucidate the composition of blu tac, especially if the exact pH range it indicates for can be determined.

[mongo blongo]

What I would like to know is what is staying with the filler once the binder is extracted. My idea at the beginning of this thread was to obtain a PBX similar to the properties of blu-tak. This does not happen as the explosive comp tends to fluff up and not stick very well. (apart from that it rules!)
I think there is an important component that will not dissolve in our solvents and thus not being included in our compositions.
Can anyone tell by the smell of the blu-tak what solvent they used to make it? I believe that there may still be some solvent in it because it tends to harden over time.
just some thoughts.

[yt2095]

Ok... you`ve got me interested, I think I`ll try the blu-tak/petrol idea and see how well it goes with AP in a shaped charge idea Mr.Cool suggested.

just hope the missus doesn`t notice!

[nbk2000]

There's two possible explainations, as I figure it, for why the blu-tac'd explosive isn't the same as the original blu-tac.

First, the size of the explosive particles, and their geometery, isn't small enough. The blu-tac residue is talcum fine. Most HE's made by amauters is maybe a little finer than sugar crystals, so the binder isn't as intimately mixed.

Which also brings to mind that the blu-tac is likely extruded out under intense pressure through nozzles, after having been kneaded with mechanical mixers. Hand mixing can't match that.

Secondly, it's very likely that there's a plasticizer component (besides the PIB) that's not dissolving in the gasoline. Phtalates and sebecates may not be dissolving in gas. Perhaps a multiple solvent wash of the blu-tac is required to remove all the solubles. A hydrocarbon, an alcohol, and finally a water wash should get everything out. :)

Oh, and plasticizers are volatile, though slowly, so that's what would cause the hardening of the blu-tac.

[Mr Cool]

Using mixtures of blu-tack binder and vaseline/grease/oil gives good results, it reduces fluffing a lot. Try maybe 90% of the finest HE crystals that you can make, 5% BTB, and 5% vaseline. A few mL of petrol will make it easier to mix up.

yt, be VERY careful when mixing up or handling an AP-based plastique! I don't know if anyone here has tried it out before. If you do try it, use a high ratio of oil/grease:BTB to try and keep it soft, so you don't need much force to shape it.

[yt2095]

Mr Cool,

I`ve done exactly as you`ve suggested, only problem is, the yeild of plasticiser was a triffle less than pitifull :(

HOWEVER! all was not lost, I used it anyway along with the materials you`ve mentioned, and now have a reasonable primary based plastique, although I think I went a little heavy on the petrol?
not to worry though, I`m sure it will evaporate leaving something behind I can use :)
I only did a small quantity, as shown in my pics;

http://www.yt2095.net/tests/detpt1.jpg
this the det cap construction, figured I may as well show some that may not know how simple it is.

http://www.yt2095.net/tests/plas1ing.jpg
The ingredients I used to make the primary based plastique, sorry the blu-tak goop didn`t show, it was in the cling film :(

http://www.yt2095.net/tests/hmtdplas1.jpg
The final product, and yes I KNOW the det cap is WAY to large for this charge before anyone starts laughing at me (I though it looked funny myself) but I don`t know the properties of this material yet and would HATE to waste any *slurp* :P
so I figured a large(ish) cap should do the job :)
Be sure, I shall let you know how it performs (if at all) and supply pics where possible :)

Hope this helps anyone?

[0EZ0]

Nice pictures yt2095.

Do let us know how the completed charge performs, as I'm sure everyone would be interested. If you are having trouble with the Blue-tack binder, you might want to look for some of that self-amalgamating tape. It should be available at a reasonably well stocked electrical wholesaler.

Just be careful with the HMTD/AN composite. There is just a little apprehension about it's sensitivity because there is no reliable data on it's physical properties. You may wish to try a few impact, friction and heat tests to verify that it is at least a little safer than we thought. You even may want to see it's reaction to water or various acids dropped onto a sample to see if it effects sensitivity. I remember members posting about how the the acidity from ammonium nitrate could destablilize the O=O (peroxide) bonds in the HMTD. So be on your toes. Metal instruments that come into contact with any HMTD composite are a no no(i see some in your pics). HMTD attacks most metals, sometimes to the point that it detonates from the heat/reaction products it produces.

[Tuatara]

There is another OTC material you may wish to extract the binder from. Builder's or plumber's mastic, a material used for caulking around pipes, has very similar physical properties to blu-tack. I removed some from under my kitchen sink, where it has been plugging a pipe for the last five years. It is still soft and pliable. It dissolved readily in white spirit (n-hexane mostly) and the filler settled out completely in 12 hours. The clear liquid on top was decanted off this morning, and the solvent has evapourated off today. The clear, colourless, residue is sticky and stringy, much like that described in earlier posts. I will be playing with it later, but only using inert compounds - I have no HEs, and nowhere to detonate if I did.

I thought mastic might be a cheaper source than blu-tack - it comes in big 250g cartridges, and is used in large quantites. Don't confuse with silicone -its not the same thing :D

[Anthony]

Blutac may harden with age, but it also becomes incredibly sticky if handled for several days (over time)(have done so on many occasions whilst sitting at a computer). It doesn't seem to lose this property if left alone for any length of time either. Maybe working the PIB before mixing in the explosive might help.

Not a very good suggestion, being labour intensive, but it might disprove the idea of a persistant solvent being the key to its stickyness.

[yt2095]

As promised ...

(and this will be my last, as I don`t feel comfortable making such things for in home testing) and I have no choice!

to accompany my last post, here are the results....

here`s the plastique, placed on the witness plate;
http://www.yt2095.net/tests/plasdet.jpg

A few layers of masking tape to protect the plasique and to keep it in place;
http://www.yt2095.net/tests/taped.jpg

a well used Yellow pages to protect me from any crap flying;
http://www.yt2095.net/tests/allset.jpg

Now a short interlude.... after i placed this charge in this chair and cushion, I thought about putting something on top of it (NOT shown in last pictures) it was a last min thought and the cam was away from me (I`m on crutches) so you WILL see extra bits of metal in the last few pics!
================================================== ============

witness plate (same as in the FLSC thread)
http://www.yt2095.net/tests/wit1.jpg

underside;
http://www.yt2095.net/tests/wit2.jpg

Now here`s the EXTRA bits I mentioned that lay ONTOP of the charge;
http://www.yt2095.net/tests/cover1.jpg

and the whole lot slapped together (carnage!);
http://www.yt2095.net/tests/total.jpg

as you may be able to see, the top layer was ONCE a Microwave Waveguide (I used it coz it fit nicely and was close to hand), it had NO pressure to be there other than gravity!!!, it`s made a several holes in my ceiling! and I`m one lucky mutha fucker to get away with it! only me, a yellow pages and half a meter distance!!!

conclusion... DON`T try this at home! and yes! blu-tak binder in primary charges DOES work! (total det!)

Mr, Cool, thnx for the idea, but I won`t do it again (not indoors anyway) :)

[yt2095]

After a good search, I see that the idea of using silly putty as a binder has been broached.
However, I`de like to bring it up again in this thread.
Silly putty to work with premade would be very difficult, there IS another way though :)

you`ll need some silicone based oil and mix that or spray it onto your powdered H.E (use a glass or plastic table)
when it`s lightly coated (NOT soaking!) spray on some Boric Acid.
it will react to make silly putty :)

gather up your material and knead it gently until it`s one homogenous mass.

this is ONLY an idea, and as yet untested! (I have no more silicone oil left)
but I do remember making the stuff as a kid, huge masses of it in fact!

Boric Acid is also used to stabilise nitrates etc.. so a little excess wouldn`t be all that bad either!

Just a Thought :)

[nbk2000]

How long does this reaction take?

If it's fairly quick, but not instantaneous, than I could see mixing in an explosive with the silicone oil, adding the boric acid, stirring and pouring it into a frame, and removing a sheet explosive after it has set up. :)

And where were you getting your silicone oil as? Tell us when you come back in a week.

[mongo blongo]

If the reaction was not instantaneous then you could put the frame into some sort of chamber and hook up a vacuum pump which would suck out all the air bubbles leaving you with a high density PBX once the reaction has completed.

[X-Wulf]

We have a similar sounding thing here in South Africa, it's called "Prestick", i guess 'cause you press it and it sticks :p
Anyway, i've got quite a clump and will try to extract the binder tonight.
If memory serves, i do believe that the ingredients are listed somewhere on the pack, if not, i could try and contact a friend of mine at a glue manufacturing company and see what i can find out about these products in general.
If i find anything out, i'll post the info.