concentrating nitromethane?

[Omogen]

i have searched thru the forum for a way to concetrating nitromethane but i didnt find anything...then i went thru some pdf`s and som texts and i found out two ways...but they are not similar

in the first it said something about a vaccum destiller but i didnt get it how to set it all up.

in the otherone it said that you should concentrate it with a usual destiller to boil away the methanol...

the only nitromethane i can get hold of is RC fuel but which technique should i use and if it is the vaccum destiller can someone give me a link with some photos or such...

thnx

[mongo blongo]

Um.. They do sound the same! It isn't concentrating it. It's separating the methanol and nitromethane. If you don't know how to set up a still then stick to low explosives for the time being. This procedure could be very dangerous!
They are exactly the same thing except that one uses a vacuum pump. This is so that lower pressure will lower the boiling point of the methanol hence you can distill it with less heat. Using the pump will be safer.

<small>[ June 13, 2002, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: mongo blongo ]</small>

[Omogen]

i know how to setup a usual destiller but that vaccum destiller i dont get.

its not just methanol and nitromethane in RC fuel there are more things. It was described in Kitchen improved plastic explosives 2 how to separate the nitromethane from the other chemicals in RC fuel with a vaccum destiller

[mongo blongo]

Sorry I thought you didn't know how to distill something. :)
Could you post the procedure? (I don't have Kitchen improved plastic explosives 2 at hand) Then I could help you more.

[Omogen]

SEPARATION FROM HOBBY RACING FUEL

Obtain some model airplane racing fuel (e.g. SIG Champion 35, SIG
Corporation). This or an equivalent is available from a hobby store.
Place one quart in a 2000 ml flask or a narrow necked gallon jar. Place a
one hole stopper in this container with a stainless or glass tubing
running just through the stopper. The other end of this tubing is placed
through another stopper (two hole) fitted into another gallon jar or flask.
This tubing should reach to the bottom of the second container. The second
hole in this stopper is hooked to a vacuum source. The first flask is
placed in a hot oil or water bath at 50 degrees C. The second jar is placed
in a salted ice bath. The vacuum is then drawn. The nitro methane and
methanol will begin to collect in the second container. This is continued
until only about 5-10% of the solution in the first flask remains. The
liquid from the second flask is removed after the vacuum is released. This
is poured into a shallow pyrex or stainless steel pan or dish. Let this set
over night. This will allow the methanol to evaporate. The remaining liquid
is 85-95% nitro methane with the remainder being methanol. This compound
will work almost as well as a pure compound.

//i dont get the vaccum destill setup

[Mick]

nitromethane is made up of three things
methanol, 80%
nitromethane, 15%
oil(castor), 5%

blah, i was going to explain it all, but i will suffice with, this method of extracting NM is a pathetic way of doing it, it takes for ever, the yields are worthless, and it cost to much.
if a 1 litre bottle of 15% NM fuel costs $20, then that bottle of fuel only contains 150ml of NM, after the extraction process you'll be lucky to get 100ml.

[DarkAngel]

You also have Race Car fuel that contains 45% NM.
If they don't have pure NM ask if they can order it or if they know where to get it.

[DBSP]

Omogen, do some reaserch for rc hobby stores in sweden, it doesn't take long to find one that sells NM, and since you live in the most populated area in sweden you shuldn't have any problems finding a rc store that sells NM. The place where I buy NM isn't larger than a normal kitchen, maby smaller. And if they have it the larger shops in stockholm must have it.

[A_W]

I'm going to Stockholm tomorrow! Do you have any names of good hobby-shops that sell NM?

[Omogen]

yes i know there are RC shops and i can buy nitromethane but the problem is that i want to buy pure nitromethane and that is hard. Ammonium nitrate is also a little probb for me cuz i am too lazy...but i needed ill go to "lantmännen" and buy some AN fertilizer or just check a cold pack.

[mongo blongo]

To use a vacuum while distilling is easy.You need a vacuum pump or a pump from a freezer. All you need to do is have a pipe from the pump to your receiving flask. Your still setup must be air tight so if you are using glassware you can coat the joints with some grease to make the joints air tight. When you have done this just switch on the pump and when the air has been evacuated you can start distilling. The pump must be left on throughout the whole process.
As people said, it's easier to just find pure nitromethane.

[DBSP]

I ment you could get PURE NM not some fuel-type shit.
Here is a store in which you can buy PURE NM in. Took me five minutes to find it.

Söders RC/Hobby AB
Åsögatan 174
116 32 STOCKHOLM ----&gt;1000ml CH3NO2, 215 SKR or 21,5$&lt;----

And here are some other link-collections.
<a href="http://www.uppsalarc.c.se/butiker.htm" target="_blank">http://www.uppsalarc.c.se/butiker.htm</a>
<a href="http://www.hobby.se/huvudram/annonsorer.html" target="_blank">http://www.hobby.se/huvudram/annonsorer.html</a>
<a href="http://hem.passagen.se/rasmus-modellflyg/Hobby_handlare_index.html" target="_blank">http://hem.passagen.se/rasmus-modellflyg/Hobby_handlare_index.html</a>

[Anthony]

I once tried vacuum distilling 20% fuel but only ever ended up with a mixture of methanol/NM. Like has been said, it just isn't worth the hassle seeing as you don't save any money.

I'd imagine that 45% NM fuel would work well for ANNM if you used a larger blasting cap.

Saying "I'm too lazy" is the wrong attitude. People won't help you if you act like that.

[xoo1246]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">The place where I buy NM isn't larger than a normal kitchen</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">I belive we shop at the same place.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

<small>[ June 14, 2002, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: xoo1246 ]</small>

[Omogen]

thanks DBSP i really appreciated that

ill try to get my lazy ass to that place and check it out sometime this week

[VX]

Why ammonium nitrate? :confused:

Perhaps a better idea would be to place a small container (200ml beaker) of NM/ water mix, in a larger container (ice cream tub), and place some calcium chloride or concentrated sulphuric acid in the larger container. Place a lid on the larger container make airtight with some tape and leave for a few days.

[10fingers]

It's been said but don't waste your time separating Nitromethane from hobby racing fuel if it's at all possible to fine pure stuff. I can get 25% racing fuel for around $26.00 per gallon. If I separated it all out I would get 1 quart of nitromethane. I can buy a gallon of 99% nitromethane including shipping for $45.00.
I did find some interesting info awhile back on ANNM. It said that ANNM is actually more powerful if it contains some methanol. It looked like reliable info, if anyone wants more details I can try to find it.

[Foxtrot83]

This may be alittle of topic, but I wanted to know the rate of detonation difference between say 100% nitromethane and 60% nitromethane. Also, what formula could be used to find out the detonation difference for other percentages of nitro. I can get my hand on 60% nitro with ease but it wouldn't hurt to be able to find out the detonation rate of ANNM with lower concentrations.

It's good to see the Forum up and kicking again...

[SATANIC]

Well, after much asking around and searching stores, the best i can find is 15% RC fuel.

rc, are you sure that the methanol would evaporate first? surely the nitro methane, being so volatile, would evaoprate first, leaving methanol, (and castor oil, which is a few % in every batch)

I know i don't have the time / patience / equipment for vacuum distilling, but if it was really that easy (evaporating) i wouldn't mind spending a bit on the expensive rc fuel.

10fingers, if you can find that info, i would certainly appreciate it. (want to try ANNM soon........)

[10fingers]

The info I had I got off of Wantsomfets site. For some reason the address doesn't work anymore. If you go to Flashbangboom and then click on the link for Wantsomfets Kangaroo corner you can get there. Theres a file on ANNM with some good info.
The optimim ratio for a AN/NM/Me composition was 1000 gms AN, 185 gms or 162 mls Nitromethane, 84 gms or 106 mls Methanol.
There were several other formulas there with some data on each.

[megalomania]

That method for distilling nitromethane sounds horrible to me, as several of you have pointed out from experience. That setup is completely inappropriate and wasteful the way it is. A simple distillation of chemicals with boiling points as similar as nitromethane (101.2 C) and methyl alcohol (64.6 C) would end up being nearly the same in the end, only minus the castor oil. A far more effective method would be to do a fractional distillation to isolate the methyl alcohol. One may try the simple distillation first to remove the castor oil, but the vacuum setup is unnecessary. Neither chemical forms any dangerous by distilling in the air. All the vacuum would do is lower the boiling points so less heat is needed, and in this case we are talking a heat reduction of maybe 30 C, big deal.
That vacuum setup basically has the distilled vapors entering into an open container with a vacuum. What do you think will happen when a gas meets a vacuum? It just gets sucked up. Since nitromethane and methyl alcohol are both volatile, letting them sit out in the open is just plain wasteful. Nitromethane fumes are also highly toxic.
I understand that the aforementioned procedure is an improvised one, but even then it is not good. I say nix the vacuum if you don’t have one, and try a fractional distillation if you can. You can dry nitromethane by adding some calcium chloride and redistilling.
For further information on nitromethane, including synthesizing your own, visit my website at <a href="http://roguesci.org/megalomania/synth/synthesis3.html#nitrometh" target="_blank">http://roguesci.org/megalomania/synth/synthesis3.html#nitrometh</a>