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NoltaiR
April 20th, 2002, 02:46 AM
Well this place has been getting kinda dull around here the within the past few weeks so I decided to post a topic on something that I may be considering (for a second time) to get.

As the story goes, about 5 months after I turned 16 and got my driver's lisence, I did some reading around on the net about staying away from cops and escaping trouble and decided a dashboard mounted radar detector would be the single most defensive way to prevent myself from getting speeding tickets and to just have a good idea of when a cop might be lurking around. Now of coarse there are other ways (radar scramblers, detectors that run throughout your entire car) but the others seem to always be either too expensive or illegal.. and sometimes both.

So I went out and spent $60 at my local Sears and bought a Uniden (I believe it was a Uniden 67 or something with a similar name) that detected the K and X bands quite well, but suffered tremendously when detecting the superwide Ka band; all bands had the ability of displaying the strength of the signal based on how close the beeps were together. When I first bought it, however, my local law enforcement used the always-on guns which ran off of K band. As long as that was in place I could find cops over an eighth of a mile away, which was plenty time to slow down and follow the rules exactly. Then the cop would pass by and as his rear-aiming gun got farther away, the signal was less powerful until it was too far away and I would resume driving as usual.

During the month that I had this detector I saved myself from countless tickets and not to mention that I always had a better knowledge of what was going on around me because it could detect trains (which run off of a form of x band) and various emergency vehicles--specifically fire engines and ambulances. After about a month, something strange happened... I suddenly was unable to detect any radar coming from cop cars within city limits. Also there were new cop vehicles available.. the highway patrolmen and some city police were now driving F150s and Chevy Blazers that had been painted white and were given proper police sirens and lights, which was certainly a sight to behold for someone like me who had seen nothing except for cars from the late 80s which were constantly having to undergo repair due to age. Also a neighboring town which is within the same county, began to crack down on street racers and purchased 5 supercharged camero Z28s to be used for police work.

Anyways in the midst of all these new changes in our local law enforecement, I came up with the idea that possibly not all cop cars had been equiped yet with running radar. Well this excuse was good for the first week or so but after that amount of time of not detecting ANY k band radar, I became suspicious. So I returned my radar detector and bought a $100 uniden 87. I bought it because I thought it was actually more powerful, but after going home and reading the package, I found that the extra $40 had gone into paying for a new body design and making my detector talk rather than beep.

I didn't feel like going back so I tried it out. One week later I found out why I hadn't been detecting any cops. I was driving down a highway in town that had a speed limit of 45mph.. and I was driving 60mph. Then in the middle of a calming drive I here my detector go off for the first time in a couple weeks.. only this time it wasn't the K band, it was the Ka band which I had never picked up before. The Ka band showed up only for a second and the signal strength never got passed the first (weakest) bar so I figured it was a false alarm. I still slowed to 45 just to make sure.. and a few seconds later I see lights flashing in my rear view mirror.

Because I had a radar detector there was no chance of a warning.. but then again I had been told about that since I began driving. Also the cop wanted me to follow him to his car to sign some papers because not only was I speeding, I had an expired inspection sticker. And laying between the driver's seat and the passenger's seat was the reason I hadn't been able to detect the cars.. it was a handheld gun which run only on Ka superwide. The cops only use them when they visibly see a car moving faster than that other cars around it (because if everyone was speeding the cop wouldn't know which car it was because the gun only detects the speed of the fastest driver).

I returned my detector and used the cash from it along with a little extra to pay for my ticket which came out to be $210.

Now although the inner city cops have the handheld, the outer city patrol men stuck with the k band because it allowed them to hide behind trees or similar objects and shoot a long distance all the time.. and the cop could even take a nap and just wake up when his buzzer went off saying someone had passed by that was speeding.

Anyways it has been a good while since I last had that detector and I was considering buying another one (a better brand though) this august when I buy my new car (which will probably be a camero or a turbocharged honda civic).

I was just wanting to know if any of you had stories about radar detectors or could give me a few pointers on which brands are good and which aren't useful for anything other than to take your money.

Arkangel
April 20th, 2002, 10:37 AM
Not sure which bands are in operation in the UK, but I can tell you that they do use hand held lasers quite a lot, and you may want a detector with that. Incidentally, it is not illegal to own a detector in the UK, nor is it illegal to have one on your dash switched on, however, it IS illegal to "act on" the information you receive.

By the way, a couple of tips if you want to avoid prosecution:

1. If you are given either a fixed penalty ticket, or a notice of intended prosecution, give the cop your name, but not the EXACT name as it is spelled. Then when you fail to go to the station to produce your documents (and in the UK you don't HAVE to carry your license all the time), they send a summons to the name you gave, but since that isn't actually you, you send it back explaining that no one of that name lives there.

Bear in mind each cop has a shit load of paperwork to do, so unless you REALLY piss them off when they stop you, they'll generally think "balls to this, I'll let it go".

2. A friend of mine used to re-direct all his court letters (they are marked) on to another friend in Chicago. That friend then opened the letter, then sent it back to the court with a note saying "X has moved to the New York area, address unknown". Nothing more was ever heard of the various (traffic) prosecutions. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

<small>[ April 20, 2002, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: Arkangel ]</small>

mrloud
April 20th, 2002, 10:53 AM
In Victoria, Australia radar is only used in roadside cameras that are placed on the ground in front of an unmarked cop car. It is an entirely automated system that takes photos of speeding cars number plates. I'm pretty sure that all handheld speed detectors use a laser now. You can buy a laser detector on the black market (laser/radar detectors are quite illegal) but because they are not 'always on', by the time your detector sounds its alarm, your speed is already displayed on the cop's readout. Also, the lasers are highly directional. A cop can pick out a single car from a packed multi lane freeway.
The cops here also have radar detector-detectors. I believe that the circuitry in a radar detector operates a particularly high frequency. This can be detected from a significant distance

<a href="http://members.ozemail.com.au/~rossboss/" target="_blank">About speed detection.</a>

J
April 20th, 2002, 10:55 AM
I've heard that if you make out a cheque for the fine, for slightly more than the amount asked, they won't cash it. Not that I've tried this, I don't even have a car.

J
April 20th, 2002, 11:10 AM
It shouldn't be terribly difficult to shield the radar detectors from 'RDDs', or at least reduce their effective distance. Putting them in a metal case and earthing that to the car body would be a basic improvement. Careful design of the circuit board would also help get rid of accidental aerials.

Anthony
April 20th, 2002, 11:42 AM
Regarding speed camera/gun detectors in the UK, they used to prosecute people under some kind of intercepting tranmissions law. There was/is no law against radar detectors themselves. But recently, a court ruled that the intercepting transmission case was junk. as there was no information in the stream that could be obtained. So now the police, knowing they've been made to look stupid are endorsing the detectors as they make people slow down for accident spots (where they put the cameras).

Arkangel
April 20th, 2002, 02:43 PM
Exactly, the junk bit was proving that you "acted on" the information. In the same way that you can listen in to the cop radio but not act on the info.

My friend was stopped by a couple of smug cops with a laser gun, and talked them into letting him have a look through it. They have highly magnified optics that they focus on your number plate before firing the laser. It isn't on for more than a couple of seconds, as someone has said it's highly directional and a detector on your dash may not even pick it up. Anyway, if you do hear your alarm, or even pass a cop/see one parked, brake IMMEDIATELY as it might take an average reading. Also, they may be using the VASCAR timing system.

As I explained though, the law is very precise, and if your car is registered in your exact name, and the cop takes down your exact name and address from your passport then you can expect shit, however, if they get your name wrong, there is a very good chance that you can wriggle out of it - many times....... :D

Also, if the law permits, NEVER produce your licence on the roadside. My friend has a lot of experience with this, so if you need specific UK advice, let me know.

Anthony
April 20th, 2002, 03:26 PM
For avoiding getting speeding ticket once caught (by a cop), I was told my a mechanic I worked with that the cop's laser guns have to, by law be calibrated every day. Due to time/resource constraints, mosy don't get calibrated this often and you have the right to see an in date calibration certificate if suspected (pulled over) for speeding. Apparently if they fail to produce a valid certificate then they can't prosecute you.

Anyone heard anything like this before?

Or of course you could get on your knees and give the guy a blowjob, it depends what your pride costs :D

Sounds like in the US the only punishment for routine speeding offences is a fine. In the UK you get a fine and a minimum of three penalty points on your license, 12 points and you loose it (6 for the first two years you have your license). You system sounds better:)

J
April 20th, 2002, 05:21 PM
That's right Anthony, they have to calibrate their stuff every day.

Not sure that I like your method of getting out of trouble (reminds me of 'Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back')!

I picked up a magazine called 'Street Machine' a few years back, which had a feature on a heavily modified Cammaro. This thing clocked just under 250 mph on a road in the US! Luckily it was a friends speed detector, not the cops.

And is it true that on certain highways in Australia there are no speed limits?

mrloud
April 20th, 2002, 06:05 PM
Sure is true. Not in Victoria though :( Out in Northern Territory and I think Western Australia, most of the long highways have no speed limit. There is an awful lot of empty space out there though. You can drive all day without seeing a single curve in the road. 100Km/h is the limit in Vic. which isn't real fast when you are out in the desert.

J
April 20th, 2002, 06:29 PM
100 kmph = 60 mph. That's the limit on most of our roads, but they're nothing like as big and wide as yours! On the motorways and dual carriege ways the limit's 70 mph, but you can get away with ~80 mph usually, due to some rule about your speed being accurate to 10% +/- 2mph.

PYRO500
April 20th, 2002, 06:57 PM
The ting about radar detector detector, or as I've herd truck drivers call them "Blue guns" they work by receving the RF that is emmited from your detector, this is with all superhetrodyne recievers, infact you can turn a tv to a uhf station and turn another nearby to a channel 5 apart from it and you will get interference, same goes for scanners and etc, you can't shield the output as it is emitted from the detector and if you shield that then you won't have a detector. Also the so called radar jammers are claimed not to decrease the useable range but actually increase it. the only jammer you can get that will work is a computer controled pulsed device witch would have to be of signifigant power and would need to be running most of the time to avoid lagging for example a magnetron that runs on the band the pigs are using and having it transmit pulses that are altered as the radar guns pulses are sent for this you would need a magnetron that can be run with the heater on for long periods of time with no use (a microwave oven magnetron won't work for that reason and it's the wron freq) you would probably need to be transmitting around 25W pulsed via computer interface and a cap discharged with an scr, you would also need a waveguide and a wide angle horn, and you'd need a horn in each direction. It would be difficult but not impossible but would probably take more time and money than most speeding tickets. Not to mention being in violation with fcc's rules witch acn get you in some serious shit.

J
April 20th, 2002, 07:10 PM
It is possible to shield receivers to reduce their radiating of what they're picking up. Some government equipment has to be specially shielded to prevent TEMPEST attacks, and there are different levels of shielding.

Radar jammers are illegal in the UK, I think.

NoltaiR
April 20th, 2002, 09:10 PM
Radar detectors are not illegal where I live, nor is it illegal to act on it. However the cops can play with the rules still and when they see you speeding and gun you, if you slow down quickly (thinking it might save you) they will not only tag you with a speeding ticket (warnings are never considered when a radar detector is seen it a car.. they consider that to have been your warning) but they will also write you up as wreckless driving because you suddenly slowed in the middle of a highway for no 'apparent' reason.

Anyways I should have mentioned that my old detector did have laser detection and a 'RDD invisible' mode (which would have turned my unit off as soon as a RDD gun was to be in the area.. but considering radar detectors are allowed, no cops use RDDs around here. As for the laser detection, my unit that I had actually 'specialized' in laser detection.. it could detect laser from a quarter mile away while the laser gun would only be able to detect me from an eigth of a mile away.... this turned out to be nothing but a sales ploy. Because although radar waves spread out over distance therefore making them unusable by a radar gun after a certain distance, laser guns only spread about 1ft after 100 yards which is still plenty concentrated to be usable. Now my city just got the new hand-held Ka guns, so laser hasn't even been suggested, but if I was to go into bigger cities (like San Antonio or Houston), the laser detection would come into play. Anyways, as stated by someone else, lasers can pick out any car from a multilane highway while radar guns only give the speed of the fastest driver. So that requires you to be going visibly faster than everyone else to get caught, if everyone was speeding then it would be impossible for the cop to pick the one car out that happened to get scanned (although if it was just a really bitchy cop he just might pick out the sportiest looking car and figure that if they were speeding now, then they must speed everywhere else too).

Also radar detectors work well because radar bounces off of metal.. therefore when a cop shoots his radar into a group of cars, any car in any direction around him that has a detector will get him.

For example:
<pre>
O shows cars
>>> and ^^^ and vvv and <<< show direction of radar
picture of highway intersection

: O ^ O:
: ^ ^ :
: ^^O ^:
..................... ^ ^^ ^ .....................
O O O O ^^^ ^O O O O
-<----<----<----<---< ^ ^^ ^ ---------------------
cop car>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>O O OO O O O O
<....<....<....<.....< O v v .....................
: v v :
: vv O :
: Ov vO:

</pre>

Well thats kind of a crappy sketch but it just explains that radar does bounce back to the cop car after hitting a car.. but it some of the waves also bounce to everyone else to until the signal is too weak for a detector to pick it up.

Now as far as radar laws go, it is legal to have a detector and to act on any alert from it.. it is illegal however to interfere with this signal (scramble it)... now if they are used well, then it is just a matter of bad luck to be caught with one, especially if you always drive in the city. Because you may be the fastest driver, but the scrammbler will cause the radar gun to register the next fastest. Well if the next fastest car is going the right speed, then you are alright, but if he is speeding as well and the cop pulls you over because he saw you going faster (therefore making him think that he got your speed) and he finds the scrammbler (usually built into the the lisence plates because that is a prime target for radar guns because the white surface seems to be more reflective) then you can pretty much tear up your liscence because the court is going to take it away your driving rights from you anyways.

And one more thing to keep in mind though is that although radar scrammblers are illegal, laser scrammblers are not. It was due to an information transmition privacy act that made all public radar/radio transmissions (whether from a radio station or a radar gun or anything of the sort) copyrighted, and therefore only the person who made the transmission legally able to alter or scrammble it. Lasers do not fall under this law and therefore are still legal.

There is one radar detector and laser detector that is supposed to be the elite of all detectors (I forget what it is called). Rather than being a dashboard mount, it runs throughout the entirety of your car and has extremely sensitive radar lines running to both lisence plates as well as to the end of your radio antenna. It also has laser jammers on each lisence plate. This is not your ordinary detector obviously.. and therefore costs much more than usual. In fact it costs about $500-$600 for the equipment and about $175-$300 for installation. But the company is so satisfied with their product that they garantee to pay every ticket you recieve within the first year of owning this detection system. (Although if you excessively got tickets your insurance company would probably drop you).

<small>[ April 20, 2002, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: NoltaiR ]</small>

Mick
April 21st, 2002, 03:08 AM
yes, in Australia we do have roads with unrestricted speed limits.

from whyallla to darwin its unrestricted - simply because theres no bends for hundereds of kilometers, and if you did happen to lose control theres nothing to hit.
Its fucken great, i went across with my dad a few months back and basicly, as soon as you see the black circle with the line thru it - you just plant your foot to the floor, 240km/h the whole way.
The only thing you have to watch out for are road trains, kangaroos and bull dust. because road trains don't move out of the way for anything, and hitting a kangaroo is some what like running into a brick wall, and landing in a puddle/lake of bull dust is similar to driving your car into the sea.

<small>[ April 21, 2002, 02:16 AM: Message edited by: Mick ]</small>