oxidation from H2O2

[selsel]

Is it possible to oxidise NaCL dissolved in a H2O2 solution?
I already made a try and i got some realy large rombic crystals on evaporation of the solution but i dont know how to test them....

[Mephisto]

If you try to make some NaClO3, your way isn't possible. You can make NaClO3 from NaCl with an electrolysis. Maybe this site can help you:

<a href="http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Campus/5361/chlorate/chlorate.html" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Campus/5361/chlorate/chlorate.html</a>

---------
Mephsito

[mr.evil]

maybe he wants to make NaO2, wich burns extremely hot.

[vulture]

Nope, won't work, H2O2 decomposes with NaCl and surely doesn't oxidize it. If you want easy NaClO3, buy weedkiller or bubble chlorine gas (toxic!) through a warm NaOH solution. No, NaOH and H2O2 won't work either.

[selsel]

Electrolysis is the only way to separate Na from CL?

[Mephisto]

mr.evil if you mean sodium peroxide Na2O2. Yes it burns really hot, but even if you give some drops of water to it. That’s the reason why you can’t recrystallize it from a solution from water.

---------
Mephisto

[mr.evil]

Right, i meant Na2O2.
Na2O2 is very nasty stuff, i broke my glassware once with it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

[Microtek]

Did you make the sodium peroxide yourself or was it bought ?
I've been interested in this stuff for a while.

[vulture]

No, electrolysis is not the only way to produce Na from NaCl. First, about the electrolysis, there's melt electrolysis which is a difficult process and electrolysis by mercury electrodes, because mercury has such a high hydrogen overpotential.

Na can be separated from NaCl with stronger or less volatile reductants like Li, Rb, K, Cs, Ba, Sr and Ca. If you can work under protective atmosphere or vacuum, you can heat a mixture of Mg and NaCl, but it must be very hot and the Na will vaporize in the process. Other reductants you can use besides Mg in this process are CaC2, Al, ferrosilicium, sodium aluminium hydride or other metal hydrides.

[selsel]

Well i dont have a lab but i have a kitchen.

[Pu239 Stuchtiger]

This entire thread is a result of one of my bullshit posts (from the "Stupid Site!" thread - I really was posting that stuff at various kewl boards). :D Don't believe me? Check out these two links:

<a href="http://madsemail.netfirms.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=stupidsite;action=display;num=10207 34248" target="_blank">http://madsemail.netfirms.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=stupidsite;action=display;num=10207 34248</a>

<a href="http://pub9.ezboard.com/fxinventionspyrotechnics.showMessage?topicID=1215. topic" target="_blank">http://pub9.ezboard.com/fxinventionspyrotechnics.showMessage?topicID=1215. topic</a>

[Polverone]

It's possible to make hydrated sodium peroxide starting with NaOH and H2O2. See Inorganic Syntheses vol. III. I have transcribed the entire article online elsewhere, but I'm not going to link to it for fear of drawing the moderators' ire.

I don't know if it's possible, practically speaking, to convert the hydrated peroxide to its anhydrous form.

[inferno]

We really need him to tell us what he wanted to oxidise it to, Na2O2, NaClO3 or whatever.

Ok this is a question arrising from the chlorate making page. 2 weeks ago i was bored and thought id electrolyse some salt. Made a saturated solution, hooked in a 9 volt battery with copper electrodes to see what happened. Its a weak current so it took a while i guess. But anyway it started going brown, the water and the precipitate. It looked like mud. I removed the battery, decanted what water i could and filtered out the ppt. Im pretty sure it was just re-crystallised salt. I tasted a tiny bit and it was salty. I dont think it was chlorate because any chlorate would have been dissolved in the water.
Anyway, i left the filtered mud overnight to dry, and it went green. Its been there about a week and now its slowly losing its green colour and becoming white, its a fine powder too. Pretty sure its salt. Would the copper electrodes have affected the chlorate production, was the current too weak or what?

The colour changes interested me, i thought it must have been some kind of chlorine because of the brown colour. Then turning green again, im not sure what happened.

[0EZ0]

Inferno,

The green is most likely from the copper electrodes. What type of salt were you using? Iodised?

[blazter]

i have attempted chlorate production by electrolysis of a NaCl solution with some success. i have a little log of my notes here
<a href="http://buzzard.ath.cx:5000/chem/" target="_blank">http://buzzard.ath.cx:5000/chem/</a>
your not going to get much of any result using copper for BOTH the anode and cathode and a battery. the reaction takes a LOT of current to get any noticible chlorate. i passed about 65amp hours through my cell and probably got about 5 grams of KClO3 after converting it using KCl and precipitating it. the easiest way to get relatively small batches of chlorates seems to be by the thermal decomposition of hypochlorites as described on the chlorate page. i managed to get a purer product with that method but still the yeild wasnt that great. i'll do some more testing now that i'm a little better equipped. i know the crystal was much purer the second time around because i got plate shaped crystals, which according to the chlorate page are characteristic of KClO3 crystals. the first time i got some rhombic looking crystals along with a lot of really fine crystals.

[selsel]

This start to geting complicated.
I would say that mostly i was trying to oxidise NaCL to NaOCL buy heating this u get NaCLO3,but my project is if it is possible to transfer the ustable oxygen of H2O2 to NaCL with ought decomposing it with electrolysis.