Small test

[Eliteforum]

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I remember some time ago one of the admins doing an experiment to see if HMTD or AP [I forget which] involving making some kind of primary substituting an acid [Hydrochloric Acid or Sulfuric Acid] for Citric Acid.

This is a little adaption of that same method. Using Citric Acid, Hydrogen Peroxide, and Acetone. [This may have been the orignal experiment]

The percentage and volume are listen below:

Acetone 100% pure 8ml
Citric Acid 99% pure 5gr
Hydrogen Peroxide 60 vol 20ml

I kept it cool, under cold water, but didn't feel it important to cool it too much with the addition of ice.

The whole solution was just under 30ml and settled to 25ml once the Citric Acid had dissolved.

The solution was left for around 16hours, and I was left with around 0.5gr of white crystals.

As the amount is too small to test to see if it will explode, I will conduct a test to see if the material reacts to any of the following:

Heat
Friction
Shock

Tests results to follow shortly. :D [It's too late at the moment]

[DBSP]

I belive that citric acid is to weak for this synthesis.

Edit, if you have the liquid left try adding a strong acid to see if something happenes then.

<small>[ July 04, 2002, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: DBSP ]</small>

[Eliteforum]

Unfortunately I got rid of the solution, but I shall try it again on a larger scale.

[BrAiNFeVeR]

Not only is citric acid too weak for this product, you must use a lot more too IIRC
But why on earth would someone use citric acid while hydrochloric is much more abundant, much more appropriate for the job and dirt cheap !! (I pay less then an euro/liter for 10/20 % HCl)

If you're gonna waste more chems on this, try using at least 4 times as much citric acid ...

If the product at all is not just citric acid that ppt out of the H2O2 because of addition of the acetone. How well does citric acid dissolve in acetone ?

<small>[ July 05, 2002, 03:08 AM: Message edited by: BrAiNFeVeR ]</small>

[vulture]

I think what you are referring to was NBK's idea to substitute citric acid by ascorbic acid (vitamin C).

[Eliteforum]

vulture, it could be, I don't remember the topic all that well. However I did the little experiment again today, and got a larger outcome, around 9grams.

First test I did was to see if it was flammable.. BOY IS IT! Burns just like AP/HMTD does. All burnt leaving no residue with a small pop.

Second test was to grind it between two rough metal plates, I don't know if it was the powder or the rust on the plates but I heard a little crackle I checked to see if it was the rust, but I couldn't see the rust so I take it was the powder.

Third test was to impact from a steel hammer. 1gram from a distance of 11inches and a nice pop. I first tried it from 6inch, but it didn't go off.

<small>[ July 05, 2002, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: Eliteforum ]</small>

[Polverone]

It is possible to make peroxides of acetone with no acid at all, but you will get somewhat different results and (I would guess) lower yields. Perhaps you should try un-acidified peroxide/acetone and compare the results with a batch using citric acid.