De-polymerizing Teflon

[Microtek]

The purpose of this topic is to establish whether it is at all possible to de-polymerize teflon using manageable chemicals and conditions, and also whether any serious hazards such as liberated flourine would result.
I have seen teflon mentioned in several instances in the context of energetic materials, specifically as an oxidizer in inciendiary mixtures and as a binder/plasticizer for a plastique containing 10 % teflon and 90 % HMX. I was thinking that maybe the teflon was funktioning as a semi-energetic plasticizer in this application due to the oxidizing properties of fluorine ( at least if you added Al or Mg to get a high-blast mix ). At the very least, teflon would be a very stable binder that would be unlikely to cause any chemical incompatibilities.
Now, the only teflon I have access to is teflon tape for sealing joints etc., but when I used it for sealing the stopper in a bottle used for glacial acetic acid, it was found to become soft and mouldable. It lost these properties as the "solvent" evaporated, but it got me thinking....

[PYRO500]

PFTE teflon, the most common kind is mostlty inert to all you can throw at it. there are some exceptions but I think they are well out of the question ( molten alkali metals,some fluoro-chemicals etc)

[Pu239 Stuchtiger]

Roasting teflon yields various toxic carbonaceous fluorides.

[Mr Cool]

Hmmm... it is going to be very hard. Teflon's main advantage over other compounds in many situations is its inertness, and the fact that it won't easily depolymerise!
Do you actually want to depolymerise it, or just dissolve it? Dissolving it might be easier, depending on the chain length.

[10fingers]

Some of the pyro suppliers like Skylighter or Pyrotek sell PTFE powder.

[Microtek]

De-polymerization would be the goal, as I'm looking for a plasticizer, but of course dissolving it might have possibilities also. In fact I do have some metallic sodium but I'm loath to use it for this kind of thing. I'm going to need it for making sodium amide which is going to be converted to sodium azide ( though this looks a bit unsafe, so I'm going for DDNP if I possible ).

[kingspaz]

why is teflon your choice for a plasticiser? why not a different, cheaper, easily depolymerised plastic?

[Microtek]

First of all because I want to try new ways of doing things, second because teflon is used as an oxidizer in some inciendiaries and so could be considered an energetic plasticizer and third because it is usable a the 10 % level which is quite good.
Of course, if de-polymerizing it is very difficult I'll have to give it up as impractical, but I won't know if it is before investigating so....

[kingspaz]

hmm....well to dissolve it...its basically a long chain halogenoalkane so maybe CCl4 would dissolve it...can't think of anything else since overall its not polar...

[nbk2000]

The whole reason why teflon is so useful is the fact that nothing (short of molten alkali) will affect it.

CCl4 won't do shit to it, and nothing you can buy or make will dissolve it without destroying it.

As for being an "energetic" plasticizer, that's a bit of a misnomer since it's not explosive. In incendiary compositions, it's both fuel and oxidizer. The carbon and hydrogen portions provide fuel, and the flourine acts as a powerful oxidizer. I KNOW it doesn't contain oxygen (duh!) but it reacts in much the same way.

Once heated to its flashover point, the breakdown of teflon is self-sustaining. You also get some fun byproducts like octylfluoride which opacifies the corneas of the eyes within a few minutes, effectively rendering exposed personnel blind and unable to defend themselves against further weapons effects. (Got to love that MIL-SPEAK :D )

You could use PTFE powder to form cold flowed pellets or slugs of explosive. You'll need a 10+ ton press to do so though.

[xoo1246]

Have you read the pdf about detonation like behavior in thermite/teflon mixtures? VOD around 3000m/s as I recall it.

[Mr Cool]

Yes, Al/Mg etc mixed with certian chloroalkanes can be detonated. Mg/Teflon (which is, IIRC, used in those decoy flare thingies to confuse heat-seakers) can spontaneously detonate, but if it's going to then it will do so within 11 minutes of being made or something...

[nbk2000]

It's basically acting like flashpowder.

[vulture]

If my information is correct, halogenated carbons make PTFE weak and somewhat fluid. Have you never seen teflon spray in biker shops for treating chain and gear?

[nbk2000]

Yes.

I also know it's actually microfine particles of Teflon suspended in a petroleum carrier, not dissolved teflon.

[James]

Maybe Teflon could be cracked similar to petroleum. As many people have already said it's futile to try to crack the C-F bonds. It's just a crazy idea I thought up while perusing Teflon sites. Ok, I say something about thermal decomposition of Teflon, but I don't keep good notes.