TeNMe (Tetranitromethane)

[NightStalker]

Formed by passing acetylene gas through 100% (or near to it) HNO₃, which forms the intermediate trinitromethane (TNMe), which is then nitrated with more concentrated nitric acid to form the TeNMe. (Ref. IEC 41, pg 2185 y.1949 and J. Chem. Soc, pg 283, y.1920)

If you have acetic anhydride, it's easy to make using the process given by Org Syn Coll. Vol. 3, pg. 803-805. Though I'd think AcO better used for HMX production via E-process.

It uses materials that are very readily obtainable (compared to things like PE), has a DV of 8,000 m/s (when mixed with toluene to zero OB) and is as sensitive as nitro (meaning easy to set off), a liquid (simplifies charge design), can be mixed with gasoline to form an impact-sensitive explosive (fill pipe, drop, BOOM! :) ), and otherwise useful for explosive production.

Problems, though, with this material is it's lethally toxic at sub-PPM exposure levels (think hydrogen cyanide), as sensitive (or more so) than NG, too unstable to store mixed (requires mixing on site, or binary design), and requires essentially pure nitric acid to make.

Anyone up for making a test batch and testing it out? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> It's supposed to have a mininum detonation diameter of only 3mm...detcord perhaps?

[Mr Cool]

Personally I'm more interested in trinitromethane. This is strongly acidic, and forms salts with NH₃, KOH etc, eg NH₄C(NO₂)₃. These salts, commonly called "nitroformates", are very potent oxidisers, like dinitramides.
However, I haven't found an efficient method to make it that doesn't go via TeNM, like the one on Mega's site. So, if anyone has another synth., please post...

TeNM is interesting for its use in binaries, and when pure is apparently rather insensitive. But, as you said, it is very toxic :(.
If you did make it you would really want to be sure that no traces of organic matter existed on your equipment. One way to do this is by boiling everything in HNO₃, I read this in an article on constructing HeNe lasers were the glass really does have to be VERY clean.

[Tosh]

Hmm, I think i once read something about trinitromethane something about decomposing trinitroacetonitrile with water? Could be wrong though, ill see if i can find it again.

[Hystrix]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> It's supposed to have a mininum detonation diameter of only 3mm...detcord perhaps?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Yeah, such mixtures are indeed very sensitive and have little critical diameter of detonation (CDD). For example, stoichiometric mixture of C(NO2)4 with nitrobenzene has CDD 0.25 mm and mixture with diesel oil has CDD less than 0.5 mm (while CDD of nitroglycerine is 2.1 mm). But AFAIK maximum VoD of TeNMe-NB mixture is 7495 m/s (at 26 wt.% of nitrobenzene). Other compositions have less VoD. Maximum VoD for TeNMe-toluene is 7265 m/s (at 15 wt.% of toluene)

[cutefix]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> Personally I'm more interested in trinitromethane. This is strongly acidic, and forms salts with NH3, KOH etc, eg NH4C(NO2)3. These salts, commonly called "nitroformates", are very potent oxidisers, like dinitramides.
However, I haven't found an efficient method to make it that doesn't go via TeNM, like the one on Mega's site. So, if anyone has another synth., please post...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Indeed it is hard to find an efficient way of making trinitromethane that is safe as well.
The simplest and safe way of making it is by nitrating isopropyl alcohol as listed in US patent
4122124
The process of making nitroform requiring acetylene requires mercury compounds as catalyst which are toxic and expensive as well as dangerous due to the extreme flammability of acetylene if compared to isopropyl alcohol.

[Mr Cool]

Very interesting! Now, where did I leave that damned isopropanol?! For the first time I have a really interesting use for it, and I think I've run out :(.

[hedm]

tetranitromethane can be obtained in 90% yield by passing ketene gas in cold >98%nitric acid and after reaction dropping the mixture in cold water :
CH2=C=O + HNO3 ==> O2N-CH2-COOH
O2N-CH2-COOH + 2 HNO3 ==> C(NO2)3-COOH + 2 H2O
C(NO2)3-COOH ==>HC(NO2)3 + CO2
HC(NO2)3 + HNO3 ==>C(NO2)4 + H2O

and 3 H2O + 3 CH2=C=O ==> 3 CH3COOH
summary:

4 CH2=C=O + HNO3 ==> C(NO2)4 + CO2 + 3 CH3COOH

[achmed]

if you wish to synthesize TeNMe with acetylene, you need mercury(II)nitrate as katalyst. then you have to bubble a stream of C2H2 through about 50°C warm nitric. The problem is, that this reaction will occur:
C2H2 + HNO3 --> CO2 + NO2 + H2O
I didn`t manage yet. I think the method with acetic anhydrid is easier an safer, although it takes much more time.
hedm, do you know how ketene gas can be generated?

[JimmyJones]

Tetranitromethane is very toxic and can explode on its own.
It should be prepared in situ when needed in a fume hood or somewhere with good ventilation.

[kingspaz]

'....and can explode on its own'

On what do you base this statement?

[JimmyJones]

I remember reading somewhere that it could explode on its own. But now as I look at it again it would seem that its sensitivity is quite low and maybe that part I read before corresponded to that fact that if you mix it with some organic liquids it may become quite sensitive and have a greater chance of exploding on its own.

[achmed]

yes that`s right. TeNMe itself is not that sensitive but in combination with toluene/benzene(or whatever aromatic compound) it is quite sensitive to friction. Great disadvantage.

[The_Rsert]

A tetranitromethane-toloul mixture in a 86.5/13.5 ratio has the following properties under best conditions:
Detonation heat: 5650°C
Velocity: 9300m/s -that's good
Cal/kg: 1759
Produced gas: 659 L/Kg
weight: 1,46g/ml
sensibility: 6cm with a 2kg fall hammer, smilar to NG
In 1950, it was the most the most powerful explosive.

[Myrol]

Hi the Rsert! Well, take care with your synonyms, espacilly German ones! Well, I know what "Toluol" is, the United ones absolutely dont know what "Toluol" is. Its "Toluene" or Methylbenzene in English speaking countries ;) . Same thing with Hexogen, huh?

Ok back on topic--> TeNM is for sure a hot powerhouse if mixed with Toluene, but do you know that TeNM is very toxic against your Lungs and will cause easiely Liver or Lungcancer? I played often with the idea to make some, but its so T O X I C....I dont know......Are you not satisfyed enough with PETN or do you really need so much overpressure?

Our good Explosive Chemists are now slowly overquested to create stronger Energetic material with CHNO compositions! If Tetranitrotetrahydrane is reached, the chain of energetic materials is exhausted. 512kbar, and around 11000m/s. The C and H Atoms couldn't faster oxidized by NO2 or N-NO2 groups. 11000m/s, the fastest way to burn Carbon :D ! Well, I hope they can open the new class of Explosives Polynitrogen. Octaazacubane N8 should be a lot more powerful as Cl-20...... :eek: :confused: we'll see!

So my main point is: If you really make TeNM, be very careful to avoid vapors, I thin TeNM is even as toxic as Hydrazine, and this is really nasty stuff!!! Very very nasty, I promise!

[The_Rsert]

Upsa, sorry!
I've heard, that the mixture tetranitromethane-toluene in 86.5/13.5 was the strongest used explosive in the WWII.

[Myrol]

Arggh, Damn....A week or so ago I've seen a list in the web wich showed me the cruel truth :rolleyes:

After a little googling for Tetranitromethane I have found some GOOD and BAD news with one strike :D Ok, Tetranitro methane if mixed with Toluene is a VERY strong Explosive thats clear BUT Tetranitro methane is one of the strongest Cancerogenic Substance used in the Lab!

There were some chemicals, Beta-Naphthyl amine, Asbestos, Nitrosamines, 1.2.3. Trichloropropane, 1.3. Propane sultone (anyone sure what is this correctly??)...well and even so also our good TeNM :eek: :eek:

It's called "a forbidden Lab substance"!!! Theoretically, not even one molecule should be present at your workplace. The risk to get cancer is almost sure, unfortunately.

So my Suggestion: Avoid TeNM in any case if you can! I dropped my whole intrest in this stuff, it's not worth the risk. I can't believe it but it seems to be a REAL health hazard :(

Anyone planning to make this Stuff? ;)

[Marvin]

Myrol, Carcinogenic doesnt enter into it if you're dead, in NightStalkers post he states,
"Problems, though, with this material is it's lethally toxic at sub-PPM exposure levels (think hydrogen cyanide)"

MSDS on the oxford site lists an inhaled concentration in rats of 18ppm in 4 hours as 50% lethal. MSDS needs to be the first stop before anything else.

[Microtek]

I made a few mL of tetranitromethane using the method on Mega's site; the one with acetic anhydride and HNO3 slowly reacting over the course of one week at 25 C. I let mine react longer at lower temp ( outside ).
I poured the mix over crushed ice and observed a fair amount of white precipitate which melted as the mix came to room temp. The product was extracted with an eye-dropper and I noticed a burning sensation in my eyes due to the fumes ( I was wearing a filter respirator and didn't smell anything or feel any irritation in my throat ).
I made a few tests with mixtures of TeNM ( 60 mg ) and toluene ( 10 mg ). On ignition it just burns, but if absorbed in tissue paper and hit with a hammer, it detonates much like NG. It also attains a pretty yellow-green colour when the toluene is added ( this may be due to dissolved impurities such as trinitromethane ).
Anyway, I became quite paranoid about the 1 ppm threshold and started feeling ill. Could hardly sleep and felt generally miserable until I did a thorough investigation on the symptoms of TeNM poisoning.
As soon as it became clear that my symptoms were all wrong for an acute TeNM poisoning, they disappeared completely. Just goes to show the power of self suggestion.

Concerning the sensitivity of TeNM/fuel mixtures, I think it should be regarded as similar to NG; certainly TATP and HMTD are much more sensitive.
I also discovered that the PEL ( permitted exposure level ) of TeNM during an 8 hour workshift is 1 ppm. In other words, it is allowed ( in the US ) to let workers breathe 1 ppm TeNM for eight hours a day. 1 ppm corresponds to 8 mg per cubic meter. Obviously it is very poisonous, but its not "it'll kill you before you know what hit you"- poisonous. Especially because it strongly irritates the eyes and throat in concentrations below the 1 ppm level ( at least I feel it in such small concentrations ).

Nevertheless, I won't be experimenting much more with it. I fear it too much, especially long term effects, and the properties are not good enough to justify the risks in my opinion.

[Microtek]

I made a few mL of tetranitromethane using the method on Mega's site; the one with acetic anhydride and HNO3 slowly reacting over the course of one week at 25 C. I let mine react longer at lower temp ( outside ).
I poured the mix over crushed ice and observed a fair amount of white precipitate which melted as the mix came to room temp. The product was extracted with an eye-dropper and I noticed a burning sensation in my eyes due to the fumes ( I was wearing a filter respirator and didn't smell anything or feel any irritation in my throat ).
I made a few tests with mixtures of TeNM ( 60 mg ) and toluene ( 10 mg ). On ignition it just burns, but if absorbed in tissue paper and hit with a hammer, it detonates much like NG. It also attains a pretty yellow-green colour when the toluene is added ( this may be due to dissolved impurities such as trinitromethane ).
Anyway, I became quite paranoid about the 1 ppm threshold and started feeling ill. Could hardly sleep and felt generally miserable until I did a thorough investigation on the symptoms of TeNM poisoning.
As soon as it became clear that my symptoms were all wrong for an acute TeNM poisoning, they disappeared completely. Just goes to show the power of self suggestion.

Concerning the sensitivity of TeNM/fuel mixtures, I think it should be regarded as similar to NG; certainly TATP and HMTD are much more sensitive.
I also discovered that the PEL ( permitted exposure level ) of TeNM during an 8 hour workshift is 1 ppm. In other words, it is allowed ( in the US ) to let workers breathe 1 ppm TeNM for eight hours a day. 1 ppm corresponds to 8 mg per cubic meter. Obviously it is very poisonous, but its not "it'll kill you before you know what hit you"- poisonous. Especially because it strongly irritates the eyes and throat in concentrations below the 1 ppm level ( at least I feel it in such small concentrations ).

Nevertheless, I won't be experimenting much more with it. I fear it too much, especially long term effects, and the properties are not good enough to justify the risks in my opinion.

[Microtek]

I made a few mL of tetranitromethane using the method on Mega's site; the one with acetic anhydride and HNO3 slowly reacting over the course of one week at 25 C. I let mine react longer at lower temp ( outside ).
I poured the mix over crushed ice and observed a fair amount of white precipitate which melted as the mix came to room temp. The product was extracted with an eye-dropper and I noticed a burning sensation in my eyes due to the fumes ( I was wearing a filter respirator and didn't smell anything or feel any irritation in my throat ).
I made a few tests with mixtures of TeNM ( 60 mg ) and toluene ( 10 mg ). On ignition it just burns, but if absorbed in tissue paper and hit with a hammer, it detonates much like NG. It also attains a pretty yellow-green colour when the toluene is added ( this may be due to dissolved impurities such as trinitromethane ).
Anyway, I became quite paranoid about the 1 ppm threshold and started feeling ill. Could hardly sleep and felt generally miserable until I did a thorough investigation on the symptoms of TeNM poisoning.
As soon as it became clear that my symptoms were all wrong for an acute TeNM poisoning, they disappeared completely. Just goes to show the power of self suggestion.

Concerning the sensitivity of TeNM/fuel mixtures, I think it should be regarded as similar to NG; certainly TATP and HMTD are much more sensitive.
I also discovered that the PEL ( permitted exposure level ) of TeNM during an 8 hour workshift is 1 ppm. In other words, it is allowed ( in the US ) to let workers breathe 1 ppm TeNM for eight hours a day. 1 ppm corresponds to 8 mg per cubic meter. Obviously it is very poisonous, but its not "it'll kill you before you know what hit you"- poisonous. Especially because it strongly irritates the eyes and throat in concentrations below the 1 ppm level ( at least I feel it in such small concentrations ).

Nevertheless, I won't be experimenting much more with it. I fear it too much, especially long term effects, and the properties are not good enough to justify the risks in my opinion.

[me234]

OK, who's up for stupid idea Tuesday???
Anyone?
OK, stupid idea for today:
Tetranitromethane / Hydrazine binary explosive mixtures...~
huh, huh, stupid no???

[me234]

OK, who's up for stupid idea Tuesday???
Anyone?
OK, stupid idea for today:
Tetranitromethane / Hydrazine binary explosive mixtures...~
huh, huh, stupid no???

[me234]

OK, who's up for stupid idea Tuesday???
Anyone?
OK, stupid idea for today:
Tetranitromethane / Hydrazine binary explosive mixtures...~
huh, huh, stupid no???

[MrSamosa]

Today I came up with an idea: nitrating Chloropicrin to get Tetranitromethane. It seems a lot easier than Nitrating say, Nitromethane, since the Chlorine atoms in Chloropicrin are so reactive. What could be used to accomplish this? Maybe silver nitrite (letting the chloride salt precipitate out)?

It wouldn't be a very pleasant way, but TeNMe isn't so pleasant anyway.

[MrSamosa]

Today I came up with an idea: nitrating Chloropicrin to get Tetranitromethane. It seems a lot easier than Nitrating say, Nitromethane, since the Chlorine atoms in Chloropicrin are so reactive. What could be used to accomplish this? Maybe silver nitrite (letting the chloride salt precipitate out)?

It wouldn't be a very pleasant way, but TeNMe isn't so pleasant anyway.

[MrSamosa]

Today I came up with an idea: nitrating Chloropicrin to get Tetranitromethane. It seems a lot easier than Nitrating say, Nitromethane, since the Chlorine atoms in Chloropicrin are so reactive. What could be used to accomplish this? Maybe silver nitrite (letting the chloride salt precipitate out)?

It wouldn't be a very pleasant way, but TeNMe isn't so pleasant anyway.

[me234]

I must say that your idea has appealed to me in the past, but alas, when I tried mixing silver nitrate with DCM and chloroform, not a damned thing happened!
I was really excited about that idea as well!
Unfortunately I can't think of the reason why it wouldn't work, maybe chloroform is a lot more stable than silver chloride.
Maybe the nitro substituent will make a difference, I say it's definitely worth at least a cursory try.
Good luck if you do decide to try it, I hope it works.

[me234]

I must say that your idea has appealed to me in the past, but alas, when I tried mixing silver nitrate with DCM and chloroform, not a damned thing happened!
I was really excited about that idea as well!
Unfortunately I can't think of the reason why it wouldn't work, maybe chloroform is a lot more stable than silver chloride.
Maybe the nitro substituent will make a difference, I say it's definitely worth at least a cursory try.
Good luck if you do decide to try it, I hope it works.

[me234]

I must say that your idea has appealed to me in the past, but alas, when I tried mixing silver nitrate with DCM and chloroform, not a damned thing happened!
I was really excited about that idea as well!
Unfortunately I can't think of the reason why it wouldn't work, maybe chloroform is a lot more stable than silver chloride.
Maybe the nitro substituent will make a difference, I say it's definitely worth at least a cursory try.
Good luck if you do decide to try it, I hope it works.

[nbk2000]

Silver chloride is a very stable salt. Unless there's an acid present, it's not going to do anything.

[nbk2000]

Silver chloride is a very stable salt. Unless there's an acid present, it's not going to do anything.

[nbk2000]

Silver chloride is a very stable salt. Unless there's an acid present, it's not going to do anything.

[FUTI]

to me234: You didn't read well MrSamosa's post...he wrote silver-nitrite not silver-nitrate. There is a big difference between those two in reactivity. On paper this seems well, but when it comes to making an explosive substance this way...I'would think twice. Explosives are nasty in their traits when it comes to mixing with other substance...this can make it more sensitive maybe?

[FUTI]

to me234: You didn't read well MrSamosa's post...he wrote silver-nitrite not silver-nitrate. There is a big difference between those two in reactivity. On paper this seems well, but when it comes to making an explosive substance this way...I'would think twice. Explosives are nasty in their traits when it comes to mixing with other substance...this can make it more sensitive maybe?

[FUTI]

to me234: You didn't read well MrSamosa's post...he wrote silver-nitrite not silver-nitrate. There is a big difference between those two in reactivity. On paper this seems well, but when it comes to making an explosive substance this way...I'would think twice. Explosives are nasty in their traits when it comes to mixing with other substance...this can make it more sensitive maybe?

[me234]

Futi, you're right, I'm sorry Mr. Samosa, it was my mistake, I did in fact misread you post, I apologize.
So then , who happens to have some silver NITRITE laying around?
I'm thinking I may just stumble across some sodium nitrite and some silver nitrate and see what happens.

Solubility silver nitrate = 88.3 g in 100ml water @ 20 celcius
= 104.9g in 100 ml @ 40
" " nitrite = 84.5 g in 100 ml water @ 20 celcius
= 95.7 g in 100 ml @ 40
Taken from http://chemdat.merck.de/mda/uk/labtool/index.html
These solubilities are suprisingly close, I'm not sure how well an alkali nitrite / silver nitrate would work to form silver nitrite, especially at low temps.
Shit, there goes my bright idea for today.

[me234]

Futi, you're right, I'm sorry Mr. Samosa, it was my mistake, I did in fact misread you post, I apologize.
So then , who happens to have some silver NITRITE laying around?
I'm thinking I may just stumble across some sodium nitrite and some silver nitrate and see what happens.

Solubility silver nitrate = 88.3 g in 100ml water @ 20 celcius
= 104.9g in 100 ml @ 40
" " nitrite = 84.5 g in 100 ml water @ 20 celcius
= 95.7 g in 100 ml @ 40
Taken from http://chemdat.merck.de/mda/uk/labtool/index.html
These solubilities are suprisingly close, I'm not sure how well an alkali nitrite / silver nitrate would work to form silver nitrite, especially at low temps.
Shit, there goes my bright idea for today.

[me234]

Futi, you're right, I'm sorry Mr. Samosa, it was my mistake, I did in fact misread you post, I apologize.
So then , who happens to have some silver NITRITE laying around?
I'm thinking I may just stumble across some sodium nitrite and some silver nitrate and see what happens.

Solubility silver nitrate = 88.3 g in 100ml water @ 20 celcius
= 104.9g in 100 ml @ 40
" " nitrite = 84.5 g in 100 ml water @ 20 celcius
= 95.7 g in 100 ml @ 40
Taken from http://chemdat.merck.de/mda/uk/labtool/index.html
These solubilities are suprisingly close, I'm not sure how well an alkali nitrite / silver nitrate would work to form silver nitrite, especially at low temps.
Shit, there goes my bright idea for today.

[hereno]

I think you better re-check the solubility of Ag nitrite at a different source, its very insoluble and precipitates readily from AgNO3/NaNO2.

[hereno]

I think you better re-check the solubility of Ag nitrite at a different source, its very insoluble and precipitates readily from AgNO3/NaNO2.

[hereno]

I think you better re-check the solubility of Ag nitrite at a different source, its very insoluble and precipitates readily from AgNO3/NaNO2.

[FUTI]

to me234: check also next terms nucleophilic center, nucleophilicity etc. and you will see the diference among nitrite and nitrate, an as well see why I don't advise experiment of that kind for "ambivalent" reactivity of nitrite. Hereno is right silver-nitrite is the least soluble nitrite salt (on contrary to other metals) but so common to unusual behaviour substance has good organic solvent solubility.

Edit: I bolded things I corrected. And I promise I will never post untill I woke up. :o

[FUTI]

to me234: check also next terms nucleophilic center, nucleophilicity etc. and you will see the diference among nitrite and nitrate, an as well see why I don't advise experiment of that kind for "ambivalent" reactivity of nitrite. Hereno is right silver-nitrite is the least soluble nitrite salt (on contrary to other metals) but so common to unusual behaviour substance has good organic solvent solubility.

Edit: I bolded things I corrected. And I promise I will never post untill I woke up. :o

[FUTI]

to me234: check also next terms nucleophilic center, nucleophilicity etc. and you will see the diference among nitrite and nitrate, an as well see why I don't advise experiment of that kind for "ambivalent" reactivity of nitrite. Hereno is right silver-nitrite is the least soluble nitrite salt (on contrary to other metals) but so common to unusual behaviour substance has good organic solvent solubility.

Edit: I bolded things I corrected. And I promise I will never post untill I woke up. :o

[me234]

OK, thanks guys, next time I'll go consult a CRC handbook or something better than a web source.
Thanks

[me234]

OK, thanks guys, next time I'll go consult a CRC handbook or something better than a web source.
Thanks

[me234]

OK, thanks guys, next time I'll go consult a CRC handbook or something better than a web source.
Thanks

[Diabolique]

If you search the government sites for tetranitromethane info, use the designator TNM, not TeNM, or just use its full name.

The US explosives labs view TNM and trinitromethane as major nuisances in disposal of waste acid.

An interestin explosive using TNM (sorry, I'm used to the explosive labs' designators) is LX-01, also designated NTN and RX-01-AA. It is a liquid explosive consisting of: 51.7% NM; 33.2% TNM; 15.1% 1-Nitropropane. (LX series explosives are developemental explosives from LLNL)

[Chris The Great]

I've been thinking about TeNM and nitroform on and off for a while. What I think could be a possibility is based on the patent posted earlier in the thread, on nitrating isopropanol. It mentions in the patent that if a mixture of nitric AND sulfuric acid is used, then tetranitromethane is produced instead. I imagine a acid/nitrate salt mixture could work for this.

Isopropanol is immediately oxidized when it hits the acid at high temperatures, so why not help it along and just use acetone?

The TeNM could be immediately collected and added to a hydroxide solution to produce nitroform, with fairly little difficulty to the experimentor. The chemicals required are also reaily available to anyone.

So, does anyone think this would work?

For what it's worth, the nitroform salt of guanidine has a VoD of 8600m/s and a sensitivity around that of picric acid. Considering that guanidine nitrate is nearly non-explosive and triaminoguanidine nitrate VoDs at 8000m/s, I imagine triaminoguanidine nitroformate would make an impressive explosive!

[Ricky]

Dear all, i belive this could be easier when TeNM is manufactured
from nitroform.
I think that will work when TeNM is obtained from nitroform and a solution of
99% HNO3 and dinitrogen pentoxide. The TeNM is than extracted by steam ditillation.
I could not found somewhat about the nitroform extraction from HNO3 and H2SO4.
nitromethane + H2SO4 + 3 HNO3 => nitroform + 3 H2O + H2SO4
I don`t know something about the solubility of nitroform in water and H2SO4.
Does anyone tried to make nitroform by this way ?

[Chris The Great]

Nitroform is nitrated to TeNM in H2SO4/HNO3 nitrating mixtures, so it would straight to TeNM and not stop as nitroform.

[Ricky]

Damn, it should be TNM and not nitroform. I belive it should work when the temperature will hold exact and a waste of H2SO4 will obtain TeNM.
nitromethane + 2 HNO3 + 2 H2SO4 => TNM + 2 H2SO4(aq.) + 2 H2O
nitromethane + 3 HNO3 + 8 H2SO4 => TeNM + 8 H2SO4 + 3 H2O
TNM + HNO3 + 4 H2SO4 => TeNM + 4 H2SO4 + H2O
The temperature is not hold correct, the synthesis going wrong with formation of nitrogen oxides. So my idea, that should work with HNO3 and N2O5.
Thanks for the suggestions, triaminoguanidine nitroformate ?

[abodoganas]

Formed by passing acetylene gas through 100% (or near to it) HNO3, which forms the intermediate trinitromethane (TNMe), which is then nitrated with more concentrated nitric acid to form the TeNMe. (Ref. IEC 41, pg 2185 y.1949 and J. Chem. Soc, pg 283, y.1920)

If you have acetic anhydride, it's easy to make using the process given by Org Syn Coll. Vol. 3, pg. 803-805. Though I'd think AcO better used for HMX production via E-process.

It uses materials that are very readily obtainable (compared to things like PE), has a DV of 8,000 m/s (when mixed with toluene to zero OB) and is as sensitive as nitro (meaning easy to set off), a liquid (simplifies charge design), can be mixed with gasoline to form an impact-sensitive explosive (fill pipe, drop, BOOM! ), and otherwise useful for explosive production.

Problems, though, with this material is it's lethally toxic at sub-PPM exposure levels (think hydrogen cyanide), as sensitive (or more so) than NG, too unstable to store mixed (requires mixing on site, or binary design), and requires essentially pure nitric acid to make.

Anyone up for making a test batch and testing it out?