megalomania
September 29th, 2002, 06:37 PM
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1091
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 09, 2000 12:50 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since I've seen people referring to "oxygen balance" and how it works to produce more powerful explosions I thought it time to post how you actually go about calculating it. Found this info on a US Navy site.
=======================================
Oxygen balance is an expression that is used to indicate the degree to which an explosive can be oxidized. If an explosive molecule contains just enough oxygen to convert all of its carbon to carbon dioxide, all of its hydrogen to water, and all of its metal to metal oxide with no excess, the molecule is said to have a zero oxygen balance. The molecule is said to have a positive oxygen balance if it contains more oxygen than is needed and a negative oxygen balance if it contains less oxygen than is needed. The sensitivity, strength, and brisance of an explosive are all somewhat dependent upon oxygen balance and tend to approach their maximums as oxygen balance approaches zero.
The oxygen balance (OB) is calculated from the empiric-al formula of a compound in percentage of oxygen required for complete conversion of carbon to carbon dioxide, hydrog-en to water, and metal to metal oxide.
The procedure for calculating oxygen balance in terms of 100 grams of the explosive material is to determine the number of gram atoms of oxygen that are excess or deficient for 100 grams of a compound.
- 1600 Y
OB (%) = Mol. Wt. of Compound 2X + 2 + M - Z
where
X = number of atoms of carbon
Y = number of atoms of hydrogen
Z = number of atoms of oxygen
M = number of atoms of metal (metallic oxide produced).
In the case of TNT (C6H2(NO2)3CH3),
Molecular weight = 227.1
X = 7 (number of carbon atoms)
Y = 5 (number of hydrogen atoms)
Z = 6 (number of oxygen atoms)
Therefore
OB (%) = -1600 [14 + 2.5 - 6]
227.1
= - 74% for TNT
Because sensitivity, brisance, and strength are properties resulting from a complex explosive chemical reaction, a simple relationship such as oxygen balance cannot be depended upon to yield universally consistent results. When using oxygen balance to predict properties of one explosive relative to another, it is to be expected that one with an oxygen balance closer to zero will be the more brisant, pow-erful, and sensitive; however, many exceptions to this rule do exist. More complicated predictive calculations, such as those discussed in the next section (go here), result in more accurate predictions.
One area in which oxygen balance can be applied is in the processing of mixtures of explosives. The family of explosives called amatols are mixtures of ammonium nitrate and TNT. Ammonium nitrate has an oxygen balance of +20% and TNT has an oxygen balance of -74%, so it would appear that the mixture yielding an oxygen balance of zero would also result in the best explosive properties. In actual practice a mixture of 80% ammonium nitrate and 20% TNT by weight yields an oxygen balance of +1%, the best properties of all mixtures, and an increase in strength of 30% over TNT.
========================================
Now get out thoses dusty calculators (oh wait, you got a computer ) and get to blasting.
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
rjche
Frequent Poster
Posts: 52
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 09, 2000 07:53 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
very good post.
Really liked that navy manual you referenced in your (here) link. There's another good one
there on lasers.
to get to it hit the index tab at the bottom which takes you to the weapons manual.
When there hit the index tab that takes you to the manuals available. lasers is on that.
tropical6969
A new voice
Posts: 12
From: oz
Registered: NOV 2000
posted December 11, 2000 01:14 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nbk I think that your cock is the biggest one I've ever had the privilage of falling to my knees for. I luv slurping choad. A warm load makes me feel drunk . Cum drunk that is.
[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited December 11, 2000).]
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted December 11, 2000 01:59 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you been drinking.....hydrazine?
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1091
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 11, 2000 10:04 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sometimes sarcasm is more fun than deletion.
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1466
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 11, 2000 03:16 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
why doesn't anyone ever change their post? I mean it makes them look like an ass hole so why dont they just edit them?
Jhonbus
Frequent Poster
Posts: 345
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 11, 2000 04:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I made a post ages ago (I think it was my first ever post in fact) wondering if anyone had tried this with AP, I was thinking of doing it myself at the time, I just never got around to it... Maybe I will try some experiments and a nice write-up for you all these holidays (On my computer simulator.)
------------------
A physicist can make a bigger explosion than a chemist ever did
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/jhon_bus/" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/jhon_bus/</a>
10fingers
Frequent Poster
Posts: 411
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 16, 2000 11:31 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think tropical dude pissed someone off. Thanks NBK for posting this method. I did not know there was such a simple formula for figuring this out. Thanx.
firebreether
Frequent Poster
Posts: 108
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted January 13, 2001 10:28 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My god you are a genius! That is awesome. That is so simple yet seems very effective. Should be interesting what new explosives people make with it.
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 14, 2001 06:32 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree we should have a better theoretical basis for our experiments. There is another site which has essentially the same information, but with a more practical ( as opposed to theoretical ) approach:
<a href="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/es310/chemstry/chemstry.htm" target="_blank">http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/es310/chemstry/chemstry.htm</a>
It has data on more explosives in terms of heat of formation, and molecular weight.
BTW here are some heats of formation that I found with a little research:
Picric acid: -217.88 KJ/mol
Mannitolhexanitrate: -708.8 KJ/mol
Nitromethane: -113.1 KJ/mol
Ammonium nitrate: -366 KJ/mol
I have looked for the values for acetone peroxide and HMTD but I can't seem to find them. Help would be appreciated.
PS. Try calculating relative strength for
84.7 % MHN and 15.3 % NM or 8.2 % NM and 91.8 % nitroglycerine.
[This message has been edited by Microtek (edited January 14, 2001).]
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 14, 2001 06:52 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's basically the same for optimising low explosive mixtures to make sure that the fuel and oxidiser are both used efficiently, and also to make sure you don't have an excess of one component which would decrease burn rate. I know this is kinda in the wrong place, but it's related to this topic so I'll put it here. I've seen so many people use stupid mixtures that I thought I'd try to help. Just remember that some mixtures, e.g. BP, do not burn to produce what you'd expect them to, so work out what the proportions should be using this method and then experiment with the exact composition if you're trying to make things similar to BP.
This will seem obvious to the more experienced among you, but I thought it might be useful to some people.
e.g.:
If you're making an Al / KClO4 flash, work out the balanced equation for the reaction. You'll need to know the valencies of the elements involved to work out the products (Al = 3, K = 1, Cl = 1, O = 2):
8 Al + 3 KClO4 -> 4 Al2O3 + 3 KCl
It must have the same number of atoms of each element on each side.
Then use the mole weight of each reactant (use a periodic table) to work out the weight of each substance needed to produce the mixture with the best oxidiser/fuel ratio. Mole weight of Al = 27, K = 39, Cl = 35.5, O = 16. Therefore:
8*27 grams of Al powder and 3*(39+35.5+(4*16)) grams of KClO4 powder.
That's 216 grams of Al for every 415.5 grams of KClO4.
This would produce 4*((27*2)+(16*3)) grams of Al2O3 and 3*(39+35.5) grams of KCl, but you don't need to know that.
I've tried to make it easy to understand, but I'm not a chemistry teacher so I'm not very good at explaining things like this!
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 18, 2001 07:42 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, very interesting equations but it doesn't allow calculations for everything...let say as examples amongst many others: silver acetylide nitrate (Ag2C2.AgNO3),Chloropicrine Cl3C-NO2 or trinitroiodobenzene (C6H2I(NO2)3).
Thus in many ways the best idea is to use the chemical equations wich are addaptable to each single case. The idea is simple: find the average oxydation state (the more extended oxydation state) and combine as much O atoms to it...until no more O are available. Then all the rest needs to be burned by extra oxygen atoms.
In the example Al/KClO4, you have to know that Al2O3 is the more stable Al oxyde and that KCl will be a result but not the K and Cl2 alone or ClO, ClO2, Cl2O3, K2O.....Only a lot of practice will lead you to fully understand this... so until then use the NBK2000 equations knowing it may not work every time.I also know (because I also have found those equations from the Navy )that that equation is uncomplete because for M (metal) I remember there to be numbers linked to the valences...Al is +3, Ca is +2, K is +1 and here it only takes in account the 2 valenced metals....
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o )"
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 18, 2001 01:38 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I know it's not perfect, but it should work for basic (I mean simple, not high pH) reactions I think.
Do you know what the difference is between silver acetylide and silver carbide? Is there one? I suppose silver carbide, if such a compound exists, would be Ag4C or something. Please tell me if you know because I'm confused! I would have thought that Ag2C2 would be called silver carbide, not Ag acetylide.
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 19, 2001 04:01 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Following a mail I have send to Uberchlor...yeah you are not the only one to have been confuse by that chemical-drogistery vocabulary....
Ubi:
>School is interesting but my chemistry teacher makes alot of mistakes, for
>ex, he says cuprous carbide is Cu4C because of C-4 charge and Cu+1 charge,
>where as all of the literature suggests the formula: Cu2C, same mistake for
>calcium carbide (CaC2) he says it is Ca2C because Ca+2 charge and C-4
>charge, when "swap" charges gives Ca2C simplified.
My Reply:
>-Actually he may not be wrong since carbides usually are C(-4) as Al
>carbide
>what is Al4C3 and Iron carbide is Fe4C3! Carbides usually liberates methane
>on
>contact with water what is the proof of C(-4) anion!Also a famous carbide
>is
>Silicon carbide caled carborundum or black diamond used as strong
>industrial
>abrasive, it is SiC.
>Al4C3 + 12H2O --> 4Al(OH)3 + 3 CH4
>But he might confuse acetylide what are C2(-2) that often liberates
>acetylen on
>contact with water (because of a wrong and comonly used name of Calcium
>carbide
>wich is actually an acetylide).
>So theorically (for learning purpose of the valences- because I'm not sure
>those
>compounds really exist) carbide of copper(I), calcium and copper (II) are
>following the crossing law of the valences:
>Cu4C, Ca2C and Cu2C
>But the acetylides would be
>Cu2C2, CaC2 and CuC2
Right, because acetylides (or acetylenides) have the anion: C2.sup.-2 or
HC2-
>So he may look stupid to you but might be right on certain points!
Ahhhh... I see! So carbides and acetylides are not the same? Beilstein says
Calcium carbide is Calcium acetylide, i always thought they were the same
thing, but i see now. "Carbide" steel: so metal carbide is formed from metal
+ Carbon right, and the acetylide is formed from metal ion and acetylene or
other acetylide reagent.
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o )"
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 20, 2001 07:55 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks. That's cleared a few things up for me.
Moderator
Posts: 1091
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 09, 2000 12:50 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since I've seen people referring to "oxygen balance" and how it works to produce more powerful explosions I thought it time to post how you actually go about calculating it. Found this info on a US Navy site.
=======================================
Oxygen balance is an expression that is used to indicate the degree to which an explosive can be oxidized. If an explosive molecule contains just enough oxygen to convert all of its carbon to carbon dioxide, all of its hydrogen to water, and all of its metal to metal oxide with no excess, the molecule is said to have a zero oxygen balance. The molecule is said to have a positive oxygen balance if it contains more oxygen than is needed and a negative oxygen balance if it contains less oxygen than is needed. The sensitivity, strength, and brisance of an explosive are all somewhat dependent upon oxygen balance and tend to approach their maximums as oxygen balance approaches zero.
The oxygen balance (OB) is calculated from the empiric-al formula of a compound in percentage of oxygen required for complete conversion of carbon to carbon dioxide, hydrog-en to water, and metal to metal oxide.
The procedure for calculating oxygen balance in terms of 100 grams of the explosive material is to determine the number of gram atoms of oxygen that are excess or deficient for 100 grams of a compound.
- 1600 Y
OB (%) = Mol. Wt. of Compound 2X + 2 + M - Z
where
X = number of atoms of carbon
Y = number of atoms of hydrogen
Z = number of atoms of oxygen
M = number of atoms of metal (metallic oxide produced).
In the case of TNT (C6H2(NO2)3CH3),
Molecular weight = 227.1
X = 7 (number of carbon atoms)
Y = 5 (number of hydrogen atoms)
Z = 6 (number of oxygen atoms)
Therefore
OB (%) = -1600 [14 + 2.5 - 6]
227.1
= - 74% for TNT
Because sensitivity, brisance, and strength are properties resulting from a complex explosive chemical reaction, a simple relationship such as oxygen balance cannot be depended upon to yield universally consistent results. When using oxygen balance to predict properties of one explosive relative to another, it is to be expected that one with an oxygen balance closer to zero will be the more brisant, pow-erful, and sensitive; however, many exceptions to this rule do exist. More complicated predictive calculations, such as those discussed in the next section (go here), result in more accurate predictions.
One area in which oxygen balance can be applied is in the processing of mixtures of explosives. The family of explosives called amatols are mixtures of ammonium nitrate and TNT. Ammonium nitrate has an oxygen balance of +20% and TNT has an oxygen balance of -74%, so it would appear that the mixture yielding an oxygen balance of zero would also result in the best explosive properties. In actual practice a mixture of 80% ammonium nitrate and 20% TNT by weight yields an oxygen balance of +1%, the best properties of all mixtures, and an increase in strength of 30% over TNT.
========================================
Now get out thoses dusty calculators (oh wait, you got a computer ) and get to blasting.
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
rjche
Frequent Poster
Posts: 52
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 09, 2000 07:53 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
very good post.
Really liked that navy manual you referenced in your (here) link. There's another good one
there on lasers.
to get to it hit the index tab at the bottom which takes you to the weapons manual.
When there hit the index tab that takes you to the manuals available. lasers is on that.
tropical6969
A new voice
Posts: 12
From: oz
Registered: NOV 2000
posted December 11, 2000 01:14 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nbk I think that your cock is the biggest one I've ever had the privilage of falling to my knees for. I luv slurping choad. A warm load makes me feel drunk . Cum drunk that is.
[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited December 11, 2000).]
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted December 11, 2000 01:59 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you been drinking.....hydrazine?
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1091
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 11, 2000 10:04 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sometimes sarcasm is more fun than deletion.
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1466
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 11, 2000 03:16 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
why doesn't anyone ever change their post? I mean it makes them look like an ass hole so why dont they just edit them?
Jhonbus
Frequent Poster
Posts: 345
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 11, 2000 04:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I made a post ages ago (I think it was my first ever post in fact) wondering if anyone had tried this with AP, I was thinking of doing it myself at the time, I just never got around to it... Maybe I will try some experiments and a nice write-up for you all these holidays (On my computer simulator.)
------------------
A physicist can make a bigger explosion than a chemist ever did
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/jhon_bus/" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/jhon_bus/</a>
10fingers
Frequent Poster
Posts: 411
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 16, 2000 11:31 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think tropical dude pissed someone off. Thanks NBK for posting this method. I did not know there was such a simple formula for figuring this out. Thanx.
firebreether
Frequent Poster
Posts: 108
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted January 13, 2001 10:28 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My god you are a genius! That is awesome. That is so simple yet seems very effective. Should be interesting what new explosives people make with it.
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 14, 2001 06:32 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree we should have a better theoretical basis for our experiments. There is another site which has essentially the same information, but with a more practical ( as opposed to theoretical ) approach:
<a href="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/es310/chemstry/chemstry.htm" target="_blank">http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/es310/chemstry/chemstry.htm</a>
It has data on more explosives in terms of heat of formation, and molecular weight.
BTW here are some heats of formation that I found with a little research:
Picric acid: -217.88 KJ/mol
Mannitolhexanitrate: -708.8 KJ/mol
Nitromethane: -113.1 KJ/mol
Ammonium nitrate: -366 KJ/mol
I have looked for the values for acetone peroxide and HMTD but I can't seem to find them. Help would be appreciated.
PS. Try calculating relative strength for
84.7 % MHN and 15.3 % NM or 8.2 % NM and 91.8 % nitroglycerine.
[This message has been edited by Microtek (edited January 14, 2001).]
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 14, 2001 06:52 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's basically the same for optimising low explosive mixtures to make sure that the fuel and oxidiser are both used efficiently, and also to make sure you don't have an excess of one component which would decrease burn rate. I know this is kinda in the wrong place, but it's related to this topic so I'll put it here. I've seen so many people use stupid mixtures that I thought I'd try to help. Just remember that some mixtures, e.g. BP, do not burn to produce what you'd expect them to, so work out what the proportions should be using this method and then experiment with the exact composition if you're trying to make things similar to BP.
This will seem obvious to the more experienced among you, but I thought it might be useful to some people.
e.g.:
If you're making an Al / KClO4 flash, work out the balanced equation for the reaction. You'll need to know the valencies of the elements involved to work out the products (Al = 3, K = 1, Cl = 1, O = 2):
8 Al + 3 KClO4 -> 4 Al2O3 + 3 KCl
It must have the same number of atoms of each element on each side.
Then use the mole weight of each reactant (use a periodic table) to work out the weight of each substance needed to produce the mixture with the best oxidiser/fuel ratio. Mole weight of Al = 27, K = 39, Cl = 35.5, O = 16. Therefore:
8*27 grams of Al powder and 3*(39+35.5+(4*16)) grams of KClO4 powder.
That's 216 grams of Al for every 415.5 grams of KClO4.
This would produce 4*((27*2)+(16*3)) grams of Al2O3 and 3*(39+35.5) grams of KCl, but you don't need to know that.
I've tried to make it easy to understand, but I'm not a chemistry teacher so I'm not very good at explaining things like this!
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 18, 2001 07:42 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, very interesting equations but it doesn't allow calculations for everything...let say as examples amongst many others: silver acetylide nitrate (Ag2C2.AgNO3),Chloropicrine Cl3C-NO2 or trinitroiodobenzene (C6H2I(NO2)3).
Thus in many ways the best idea is to use the chemical equations wich are addaptable to each single case. The idea is simple: find the average oxydation state (the more extended oxydation state) and combine as much O atoms to it...until no more O are available. Then all the rest needs to be burned by extra oxygen atoms.
In the example Al/KClO4, you have to know that Al2O3 is the more stable Al oxyde and that KCl will be a result but not the K and Cl2 alone or ClO, ClO2, Cl2O3, K2O.....Only a lot of practice will lead you to fully understand this... so until then use the NBK2000 equations knowing it may not work every time.I also know (because I also have found those equations from the Navy )that that equation is uncomplete because for M (metal) I remember there to be numbers linked to the valences...Al is +3, Ca is +2, K is +1 and here it only takes in account the 2 valenced metals....
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o )"
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 18, 2001 01:38 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I know it's not perfect, but it should work for basic (I mean simple, not high pH) reactions I think.
Do you know what the difference is between silver acetylide and silver carbide? Is there one? I suppose silver carbide, if such a compound exists, would be Ag4C or something. Please tell me if you know because I'm confused! I would have thought that Ag2C2 would be called silver carbide, not Ag acetylide.
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 19, 2001 04:01 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Following a mail I have send to Uberchlor...yeah you are not the only one to have been confuse by that chemical-drogistery vocabulary....
Ubi:
>School is interesting but my chemistry teacher makes alot of mistakes, for
>ex, he says cuprous carbide is Cu4C because of C-4 charge and Cu+1 charge,
>where as all of the literature suggests the formula: Cu2C, same mistake for
>calcium carbide (CaC2) he says it is Ca2C because Ca+2 charge and C-4
>charge, when "swap" charges gives Ca2C simplified.
My Reply:
>-Actually he may not be wrong since carbides usually are C(-4) as Al
>carbide
>what is Al4C3 and Iron carbide is Fe4C3! Carbides usually liberates methane
>on
>contact with water what is the proof of C(-4) anion!Also a famous carbide
>is
>Silicon carbide caled carborundum or black diamond used as strong
>industrial
>abrasive, it is SiC.
>Al4C3 + 12H2O --> 4Al(OH)3 + 3 CH4
>But he might confuse acetylide what are C2(-2) that often liberates
>acetylen on
>contact with water (because of a wrong and comonly used name of Calcium
>carbide
>wich is actually an acetylide).
>So theorically (for learning purpose of the valences- because I'm not sure
>those
>compounds really exist) carbide of copper(I), calcium and copper (II) are
>following the crossing law of the valences:
>Cu4C, Ca2C and Cu2C
>But the acetylides would be
>Cu2C2, CaC2 and CuC2
Right, because acetylides (or acetylenides) have the anion: C2.sup.-2 or
HC2-
>So he may look stupid to you but might be right on certain points!
Ahhhh... I see! So carbides and acetylides are not the same? Beilstein says
Calcium carbide is Calcium acetylide, i always thought they were the same
thing, but i see now. "Carbide" steel: so metal carbide is formed from metal
+ Carbon right, and the acetylide is formed from metal ion and acetylene or
other acetylide reagent.
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o )"
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 20, 2001 07:55 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks. That's cleared a few things up for me.