megalomania
September 29th, 2002, 07:00 PM
kingspaz
Frequent Poster
Posts: 346
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 01, 2001 05:51 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it possible to make potassium nitrate from ammonium nitrate?
i was thinking along the lines of using potassium chloride and ammonium nitrate in water to make ammonium chloride and potassium nitrate. i have done this but don't know if a reaction has taken place or how to separate the products. does anyone know how i could get the two to react?
any input at all would be appreciated as it may get me thinking.
thanx
Rhadon
Frequent Poster
Posts: 95
From: Germany
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 01, 2001 02:33 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, it's possible to make potassium nitrate from ammonium nitrate, and the preocess is quite easy. All you have to do it to moisten your ammonium nitrate a bit and give potassium hyroxide to it. Reaction:
NH4NO3 + KOH => KNO3 + NH3 + H2O
Stir for a while until the reaction begins, then get away from it (not all the ammonia that forms can dissolve in water and thus is available in gaseous form).
I once used this process to make a mixture of NH4NO3 and KNO3 (from fertilizer) to pure KNO3. I heated the resulting solution of KNO3 until it contained no more water (take a drop of it and bring it onto a cold surface; if it doesn't harden immediately you will have to continue heating).
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 01, 2001 04:53 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi
It's easy to make KNO3 from NH4NO3 and KCl. Just weigh out 74.5 grams of KCl and 80 grams of NH4NO3. Put them in a beaker and just cover them in water. Heat the beaker to boil the water, and add more water slowly until all the crystals have just dissolved, forming a saturated, boiling solution (there will be no obvious reaction). Then just cool the solution in the fridge, and crystals of KNO3 will form and can be filtered out. NH4Cl is very soluable, so this will stay in solution. If you want to seperate it out of solution, just boil off most of the water and cool it down again to precipitate it. It will also have a bit of KNO3 in it, and your batch of KNO3 will have some NH4Cl in it, but only tiny amounts. If you like, you can wash your KNO3 crystals once or twice with ice cold water to get rid of most of the NH4Cl.
Hope this has helped!
kingspaz
Frequent Poster
Posts: 346
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 01, 2001 05:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thanx guys!!!
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 01, 2001 05:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi,
It's easy to make KNO3 from those chemicals, you can just mix 80 grams of NH4NO3 and 74.5 grams of KCl, add a bit of water and heat it to boil the water. Add more water until all the solid has dissolved to form a boiling saturated solution. Then cool it in the fridge, and crystals of KNO3 will form and can be filtered out. While still in the filter paper, wash the KNO3 twice with a bit of ice cold water to get rid of the NH4Cl solution that is also formed. Dry the crystals in an oven at about 80 C for an hour or two, and powder them. You should get about 95 to 100 grams of KNO3, allowing for losses.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 01, 2001 05:11 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I've replied to this twice, it's because my computer has gone a bit strange and I wasn't sure if it worked. It's not because I'm weird.
SATANIC
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 08, 2001 08:13 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
would that process work for NaCl to make sodium Nitrate? otherwise , where would you get KCl?
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 09, 2001 02:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sodium Nitrate is crap.
KCl can be had as a salt sustitute or as refills for water softeners.
kingspaz
Frequent Poster
Posts: 346
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 09, 2001 05:18 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thanx guys
would i be right in saying the same process could be applied to make potassium chlorate from sodium chlorate and potassium chloride?
i think i better get me some chlorate weedkiller from B&Q..........
just a thought but do any of you think a mix of potassium chlorate 70%, vaseline 10% and charcoal 20% would make any sort of half decent smoke bomb?.....does anyone have any suggestions?
thanx again
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 09, 2001 05:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure, just make a hot, saturated solution of NaCLO3 and a got saturated solution with twice the weight of KCl, mix them together and let it cool.
Vaseline/chlorate smokes quite a bit, a 50:50 mix of NaCLO3/wax smokes a lot with some NaCLO3/sugar mix to get it going.
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 10, 2001 11:50 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know this is kinda reversing the topic,but I read in an Industrial chemicals book about different processes of manufacturing AN;one was simply mixing ammonium sulfate and sodium or potassium nitrate in solution,then evaporating until the AN crystallized out.It didn't list any specifics,however.Anyone else out there heard of this/tried it/have any ratios?
------------------
"There can be only one!"
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 11, 2001 03:46 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Isn't it true that KCl is used in lethal injection to stop the heart from working? I think they inject the guy with 2 other things first.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 11, 2001 05:58 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I believe it either gives you a heart attack or slows your heart untill it stops.
Stone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 140
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 11, 2001 11:44 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok... NH4NO3 + KCl, i ended up with the white precipitate but it was pasty like, and testing it, it was not KNO3. Why did the Ammonium Chloride come out first? I assume the KNO3 is still dissolved in the filtered solution, so it's being evaporated at the moment. I'll test that when it is dry.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 12, 2001 07:19 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would have thought that an ammonium salt would have been far more soluble than a potassium one!?
Stone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 140
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 12, 2001 06:37 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well... I filtered the white "stuff" out, dried it and then powdered it. I mixed it 50/50 with sugar and it would not ignite, the sugar just burnt where i put the flame. But i have been evaporating the water out of the filtered solution and i took some "sludge" that was nearly dry and mixed it with sugar then put it back in the oven... it was taking too long so i thought i'd hurry it up and see if it would ignite, so it went in the microwave It boiled the water off and then ignited. So there is a bit of KNO3 in there... But from the look of the rest of the solution i still have heaps of AN in there. I think buying a bag of KNO3 will be much easier.
[This message has been edited by Stone (edited January 12, 2001).]
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 13, 2001 11:42 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
KNO3 still in solution?
That's weird...
Yeah, it'd probably be easier to buy the KNO3 if you can find a source, but it's getting rarer.
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 13, 2001 12:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony, where do you get your KNO3 from? I've tried everywhere, can't find it!
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 13, 2001 08:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony,blackadder;do you live in the U.S.?.I've found it at most smaller hardware stores as stump remover;'Dragon'brand(small white prills),and 'Green Thumb'brand(tan powder,slightly impure).It's about 6 or 7 dollars a lb..
------------------
"There can be only one!"
[This message has been edited by MacCleod (edited January 13, 2001).]
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 13, 2001 09:24 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm a UKairian I've emailed you Blackadder.
$6 or $7 a pound? That's quite expensive, I can get 25kg fertilzer grade KNO3 for £32.
zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 403
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 14, 2001 06:35 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey anthony, can u send me an email about it too? thanx
------------------
Handguns don't kill people... Half as well as full-auto
Visit me at <a href="http://www.surf.to/eliteforum" target="_blank">www.surf.to/eliteforum</a>
SATANIC
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 14, 2001 06:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
has anyone ever found KNO3 as stump remover in aus? I have found you can buy it at farming stores, 25kg bags, but i can't get it home like that. (i have no car + under 18)
Stone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 140
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 14, 2001 07:38 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SATANIC... how much was the 25kg bag?
Teck
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 22, 2001 12:24 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have some sources where I buy my chemicals. Although the shipping is pretty expensive check them out. <a href="http://www.sciencealliance.com/" target="_blank">http://www.sciencealliance.com/</a>
and
Pyrotek
PO Box 300
Sweet Valley, PA. 18656
(507)256-3087 <a href="http://www.pyrotek.org" target="_blank">www.pyrotek.org</a>
angelo
Frequent Poster
Posts: 279
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 22, 2001 12:53 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
teck are you from oz?
------------------
angelo's place
have a good link? add it here
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 22, 2001 02:40 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know that KNO3 is used as a stump remover (Im guessing people mean tree stumps), but what does KNO3 do, that removes a stump?
Just curious.
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 22, 2001 08:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You drill several large (1 in.) holes down into the stump at different angles, fill the holes with the KNO3,then pour water in the holes,let stand for 6 to 8 weeks (until the nitrate is completely absorbed).Then pour some kerosene,gas,etc.on the stump and ignite it.The stump smoulders until only ashes are left.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 346
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 01, 2001 05:51 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it possible to make potassium nitrate from ammonium nitrate?
i was thinking along the lines of using potassium chloride and ammonium nitrate in water to make ammonium chloride and potassium nitrate. i have done this but don't know if a reaction has taken place or how to separate the products. does anyone know how i could get the two to react?
any input at all would be appreciated as it may get me thinking.
thanx
Rhadon
Frequent Poster
Posts: 95
From: Germany
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 01, 2001 02:33 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, it's possible to make potassium nitrate from ammonium nitrate, and the preocess is quite easy. All you have to do it to moisten your ammonium nitrate a bit and give potassium hyroxide to it. Reaction:
NH4NO3 + KOH => KNO3 + NH3 + H2O
Stir for a while until the reaction begins, then get away from it (not all the ammonia that forms can dissolve in water and thus is available in gaseous form).
I once used this process to make a mixture of NH4NO3 and KNO3 (from fertilizer) to pure KNO3. I heated the resulting solution of KNO3 until it contained no more water (take a drop of it and bring it onto a cold surface; if it doesn't harden immediately you will have to continue heating).
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 01, 2001 04:53 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi
It's easy to make KNO3 from NH4NO3 and KCl. Just weigh out 74.5 grams of KCl and 80 grams of NH4NO3. Put them in a beaker and just cover them in water. Heat the beaker to boil the water, and add more water slowly until all the crystals have just dissolved, forming a saturated, boiling solution (there will be no obvious reaction). Then just cool the solution in the fridge, and crystals of KNO3 will form and can be filtered out. NH4Cl is very soluable, so this will stay in solution. If you want to seperate it out of solution, just boil off most of the water and cool it down again to precipitate it. It will also have a bit of KNO3 in it, and your batch of KNO3 will have some NH4Cl in it, but only tiny amounts. If you like, you can wash your KNO3 crystals once or twice with ice cold water to get rid of most of the NH4Cl.
Hope this has helped!
kingspaz
Frequent Poster
Posts: 346
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 01, 2001 05:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thanx guys!!!
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 01, 2001 05:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi,
It's easy to make KNO3 from those chemicals, you can just mix 80 grams of NH4NO3 and 74.5 grams of KCl, add a bit of water and heat it to boil the water. Add more water until all the solid has dissolved to form a boiling saturated solution. Then cool it in the fridge, and crystals of KNO3 will form and can be filtered out. While still in the filter paper, wash the KNO3 twice with a bit of ice cold water to get rid of the NH4Cl solution that is also formed. Dry the crystals in an oven at about 80 C for an hour or two, and powder them. You should get about 95 to 100 grams of KNO3, allowing for losses.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 01, 2001 05:11 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I've replied to this twice, it's because my computer has gone a bit strange and I wasn't sure if it worked. It's not because I'm weird.
SATANIC
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 08, 2001 08:13 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
would that process work for NaCl to make sodium Nitrate? otherwise , where would you get KCl?
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 09, 2001 02:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sodium Nitrate is crap.
KCl can be had as a salt sustitute or as refills for water softeners.
kingspaz
Frequent Poster
Posts: 346
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 09, 2001 05:18 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thanx guys
would i be right in saying the same process could be applied to make potassium chlorate from sodium chlorate and potassium chloride?
i think i better get me some chlorate weedkiller from B&Q..........
just a thought but do any of you think a mix of potassium chlorate 70%, vaseline 10% and charcoal 20% would make any sort of half decent smoke bomb?.....does anyone have any suggestions?
thanx again
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 09, 2001 05:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure, just make a hot, saturated solution of NaCLO3 and a got saturated solution with twice the weight of KCl, mix them together and let it cool.
Vaseline/chlorate smokes quite a bit, a 50:50 mix of NaCLO3/wax smokes a lot with some NaCLO3/sugar mix to get it going.
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 10, 2001 11:50 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know this is kinda reversing the topic,but I read in an Industrial chemicals book about different processes of manufacturing AN;one was simply mixing ammonium sulfate and sodium or potassium nitrate in solution,then evaporating until the AN crystallized out.It didn't list any specifics,however.Anyone else out there heard of this/tried it/have any ratios?
------------------
"There can be only one!"
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 11, 2001 03:46 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Isn't it true that KCl is used in lethal injection to stop the heart from working? I think they inject the guy with 2 other things first.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 11, 2001 05:58 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I believe it either gives you a heart attack or slows your heart untill it stops.
Stone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 140
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 11, 2001 11:44 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok... NH4NO3 + KCl, i ended up with the white precipitate but it was pasty like, and testing it, it was not KNO3. Why did the Ammonium Chloride come out first? I assume the KNO3 is still dissolved in the filtered solution, so it's being evaporated at the moment. I'll test that when it is dry.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 12, 2001 07:19 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would have thought that an ammonium salt would have been far more soluble than a potassium one!?
Stone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 140
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 12, 2001 06:37 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well... I filtered the white "stuff" out, dried it and then powdered it. I mixed it 50/50 with sugar and it would not ignite, the sugar just burnt where i put the flame. But i have been evaporating the water out of the filtered solution and i took some "sludge" that was nearly dry and mixed it with sugar then put it back in the oven... it was taking too long so i thought i'd hurry it up and see if it would ignite, so it went in the microwave It boiled the water off and then ignited. So there is a bit of KNO3 in there... But from the look of the rest of the solution i still have heaps of AN in there. I think buying a bag of KNO3 will be much easier.
[This message has been edited by Stone (edited January 12, 2001).]
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 13, 2001 11:42 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
KNO3 still in solution?
That's weird...
Yeah, it'd probably be easier to buy the KNO3 if you can find a source, but it's getting rarer.
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 13, 2001 12:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony, where do you get your KNO3 from? I've tried everywhere, can't find it!
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 13, 2001 08:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony,blackadder;do you live in the U.S.?.I've found it at most smaller hardware stores as stump remover;'Dragon'brand(small white prills),and 'Green Thumb'brand(tan powder,slightly impure).It's about 6 or 7 dollars a lb..
------------------
"There can be only one!"
[This message has been edited by MacCleod (edited January 13, 2001).]
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 13, 2001 09:24 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm a UKairian I've emailed you Blackadder.
$6 or $7 a pound? That's quite expensive, I can get 25kg fertilzer grade KNO3 for £32.
zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 403
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 14, 2001 06:35 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey anthony, can u send me an email about it too? thanx
------------------
Handguns don't kill people... Half as well as full-auto
Visit me at <a href="http://www.surf.to/eliteforum" target="_blank">www.surf.to/eliteforum</a>
SATANIC
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 14, 2001 06:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
has anyone ever found KNO3 as stump remover in aus? I have found you can buy it at farming stores, 25kg bags, but i can't get it home like that. (i have no car + under 18)
Stone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 140
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 14, 2001 07:38 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SATANIC... how much was the 25kg bag?
Teck
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 22, 2001 12:24 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have some sources where I buy my chemicals. Although the shipping is pretty expensive check them out. <a href="http://www.sciencealliance.com/" target="_blank">http://www.sciencealliance.com/</a>
and
Pyrotek
PO Box 300
Sweet Valley, PA. 18656
(507)256-3087 <a href="http://www.pyrotek.org" target="_blank">www.pyrotek.org</a>
angelo
Frequent Poster
Posts: 279
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 22, 2001 12:53 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
teck are you from oz?
------------------
angelo's place
have a good link? add it here
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 22, 2001 02:40 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know that KNO3 is used as a stump remover (Im guessing people mean tree stumps), but what does KNO3 do, that removes a stump?
Just curious.
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 22, 2001 08:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You drill several large (1 in.) holes down into the stump at different angles, fill the holes with the KNO3,then pour water in the holes,let stand for 6 to 8 weeks (until the nitrate is completely absorbed).Then pour some kerosene,gas,etc.on the stump and ignite it.The stump smoulders until only ashes are left.