zaibatsu
October 13th, 2002, 09:43 AM
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted December 31, 2000 03:55 PM
I've heard in the forum that the citric acid from lemons can be used in place of the Hcl in the AP reaction. If true, how much should I use and is it safe? I think it is.
Maddoc
Moderator
Posts: 534
From: Somewhere on this earth....
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 31, 2000 05:54 PM
Yeah, I lemon is enough citric acid for for 100ml of other reactants.
Kool Aid for HMTD mix in place of the HCI, Kool Aid seems to work better in HMTD than AP.
------------------
Whoa, where my fingers?
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted December 31, 2000 07:50 PM
Did you mean 1 lemon? It looked like I lemon to me. Just a bit confused the way you wrote it. And what are you talking about with Kool Aid and HMTD?
zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 403
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 01, 2001 02:51 PM
Kool Aid is an american thing, i think "gator aid" is the same as lucozade (sp?)
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 01, 2001 05:31 PM
I believe cool aid is soemthing you add to water to make a flavoured drink.
Gatorade tastes like piss and is the cloest thing you get to concentrated "squash" except it comes ready diluted in bottles
Get this, in the US you can buy pre-poured breakfast cereal! Cellophane wrapped plastic bowls filled with cereal.
Maddoc
Moderator
Posts: 534
From: Somewhere on this earth....
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 01, 2001 05:38 PM
In case you didnt get it... I was joking .
Using the juice of a lemon for AP is like using Mud in place of oil in your car.
Buy citric acid from any good chemist.
Gatorade cool man... for some reason I love it .
And those breakfast bowls are the best in the morning... no fuss... no mess.. no washing up .
---
Hell Yeah!!!
[This message has been edited by Maddoc (edited January 01, 2001).]
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 01, 2001 07:00 PM
How much citric acid would I have to put in for 100 ml of other reactants?
Maddoc
Moderator
Posts: 534
From: Somewhere on this earth....
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 03, 2001 12:32 PM
Try and tell us... Although I tried once usuing a very concentrated mix of citric acid and got no yield.
Use sulfuric. If you cant buy it... head down a scrapyard, grab an old battery, Pour the acid into an old enameled pan, and heat until you see white fumes coming off, let cool, and store in a glass jar (Mayo jars are good).
-----
"Ha ha ha, that fucking shotguns straight out of Doom" - Lying Wankers Signature who has since left when his parents found a bb gun in his room.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1466
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 03, 2001 04:53 PM
i have found that 9ml of h2so4 gives excelent yeilds in batched of ap of up to 650 ml of ingredients
Arthis
Frequent Poster
Posts: 203
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 07, 2001 06:17 AM
I don't know if it's funny to ask many times the same question, but it is not to answer many times the same questions. I said too joking that you could use a lemon. In fact, you have many other chemicals that may interfer in the reaction. So watch out. And for everybody, the acid is a CATALYST, which mean that it will work with any conc. of acid but the speed of the reaction may be higher with more acid. So don't tell us "put 9 mL of h2so4" nobody cares since if you put only 4.5 mL it will work, just you'll have to wait longer. The yield should be about the same.
CragHack
Frequent Poster
Posts: 606
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 07, 2001 12:15 PM
technically you do not need acid at all. but it will take a while for crystals to form.
------------------
...Æ
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 07, 2001 12:36 PM
Thanks for the input!
SafetyLast
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From: the cretaceous period
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 11, 2001 04:36 PM
There are these things called bomb bags they are comprised of a thick 3"x5" plastic bag filled with 5 grams of sodium bicarbonate and a smaller bag filled with about the same ammount of Citric Acid. you can buy them from novelty places and fairs and carnivals for $.50 each they are used by squeezing the smaller bag and crushing it allowing the citric acid to come in contact with the sodium bicarbonate releasing gasses that pop the bag. I'm still looking for citric acid powder at the supermarket this would cost a lot less and I think that citric acid should only be used for making HMTD because HCl is a lot cheaper than CA
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 11, 2001 06:30 PM
Then why not use HCl to catalyse the HMTD reaction?
SafetyLast
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From: the cretaceous period
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 11, 2001 07:15 PM
Hmmm I didn't know you could do that!
Thanks Anthony!
Does it have the same power and is the sensitivity any different?
(Im assuming that its not seeing as the acid is just a catylyst, but then why do all of the places like Megas site and other ones like it say to use citric acid?)
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted December 31, 2000 03:55 PM
I've heard in the forum that the citric acid from lemons can be used in place of the Hcl in the AP reaction. If true, how much should I use and is it safe? I think it is.
Maddoc
Moderator
Posts: 534
From: Somewhere on this earth....
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 31, 2000 05:54 PM
Yeah, I lemon is enough citric acid for for 100ml of other reactants.
Kool Aid for HMTD mix in place of the HCI, Kool Aid seems to work better in HMTD than AP.
------------------
Whoa, where my fingers?
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted December 31, 2000 07:50 PM
Did you mean 1 lemon? It looked like I lemon to me. Just a bit confused the way you wrote it. And what are you talking about with Kool Aid and HMTD?
zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 403
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 01, 2001 02:51 PM
Kool Aid is an american thing, i think "gator aid" is the same as lucozade (sp?)
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 01, 2001 05:31 PM
I believe cool aid is soemthing you add to water to make a flavoured drink.
Gatorade tastes like piss and is the cloest thing you get to concentrated "squash" except it comes ready diluted in bottles
Get this, in the US you can buy pre-poured breakfast cereal! Cellophane wrapped plastic bowls filled with cereal.
Maddoc
Moderator
Posts: 534
From: Somewhere on this earth....
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 01, 2001 05:38 PM
In case you didnt get it... I was joking .
Using the juice of a lemon for AP is like using Mud in place of oil in your car.
Buy citric acid from any good chemist.
Gatorade cool man... for some reason I love it .
And those breakfast bowls are the best in the morning... no fuss... no mess.. no washing up .
---
Hell Yeah!!!
[This message has been edited by Maddoc (edited January 01, 2001).]
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 01, 2001 07:00 PM
How much citric acid would I have to put in for 100 ml of other reactants?
Maddoc
Moderator
Posts: 534
From: Somewhere on this earth....
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 03, 2001 12:32 PM
Try and tell us... Although I tried once usuing a very concentrated mix of citric acid and got no yield.
Use sulfuric. If you cant buy it... head down a scrapyard, grab an old battery, Pour the acid into an old enameled pan, and heat until you see white fumes coming off, let cool, and store in a glass jar (Mayo jars are good).
-----
"Ha ha ha, that fucking shotguns straight out of Doom" - Lying Wankers Signature who has since left when his parents found a bb gun in his room.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1466
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 03, 2001 04:53 PM
i have found that 9ml of h2so4 gives excelent yeilds in batched of ap of up to 650 ml of ingredients
Arthis
Frequent Poster
Posts: 203
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 07, 2001 06:17 AM
I don't know if it's funny to ask many times the same question, but it is not to answer many times the same questions. I said too joking that you could use a lemon. In fact, you have many other chemicals that may interfer in the reaction. So watch out. And for everybody, the acid is a CATALYST, which mean that it will work with any conc. of acid but the speed of the reaction may be higher with more acid. So don't tell us "put 9 mL of h2so4" nobody cares since if you put only 4.5 mL it will work, just you'll have to wait longer. The yield should be about the same.
CragHack
Frequent Poster
Posts: 606
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 07, 2001 12:15 PM
technically you do not need acid at all. but it will take a while for crystals to form.
------------------
...Æ
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 07, 2001 12:36 PM
Thanks for the input!
SafetyLast
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From: the cretaceous period
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 11, 2001 04:36 PM
There are these things called bomb bags they are comprised of a thick 3"x5" plastic bag filled with 5 grams of sodium bicarbonate and a smaller bag filled with about the same ammount of Citric Acid. you can buy them from novelty places and fairs and carnivals for $.50 each they are used by squeezing the smaller bag and crushing it allowing the citric acid to come in contact with the sodium bicarbonate releasing gasses that pop the bag. I'm still looking for citric acid powder at the supermarket this would cost a lot less and I think that citric acid should only be used for making HMTD because HCl is a lot cheaper than CA
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 11, 2001 06:30 PM
Then why not use HCl to catalyse the HMTD reaction?
SafetyLast
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From: the cretaceous period
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 11, 2001 07:15 PM
Hmmm I didn't know you could do that!
Thanks Anthony!
Does it have the same power and is the sensitivity any different?
(Im assuming that its not seeing as the acid is just a catylyst, but then why do all of the places like Megas site and other ones like it say to use citric acid?)