Author Topic: Has psychokitty won the OTC safrole contest?  (Read 17361 times)

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psychokitty

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Has psychokitty won the OTC safrole contest?
« on: October 09, 2000, 03:01:00 AM »
Has psychokitty won the OTC safrole contest?  I think so, my fellow bees. 

It's been almost two years since this problem first reared it's ugly head. Many suggestions were made but none seemed to offer any hope of going directly from eugenol to safrole in at least two easy steps.  Some of the more notable methods offered can be found on Rhodium's page (most of them from psychokitty and Rev. Drone). 

At first, it seemed like eugenol or isoeugenol would offer the best starting point to get to safrole via MVK (MethylVanillylKetone) by way of the wacker on eugenol or the performic on isoeugenol.  SWIMM managed to isomerize eugenol to isoeugenol in a novel efficient way utilizing KOH and a PTC (details also on Rhodiums page) but found that application of the modified performic on isoeugenol only served to waste alot of chemicals (SWIMM got back practically all of his starting isoeugenol from the mix).  At first, SWIMM assumed the hydrogen peroxide to be at fault but when it was used in another performic reaction using isos_frole as the starting material, all went well.  So regarding this problem, SWIMM is still swimming in the theoretical pool looking for answers.  Any suggestions, fellow bees?

Anyway, although there are patented proceedures for carrying out the performic on isoeugenol, the yields and excessive mess factor really discourage SWIMM from pursuing them as possible ways to MVK. As for the wacker, a CA reference which kitty has indicates that low yields (30%) were obtained when eugenol was reacted with O2 and PdCl2-CuCl2 under various conditions.  The nitrite wacker DOES work on eugenol to get MVK (80%) as indicated in the original US patent, but neither kitty nor SWIMM has never tried it and to his knowledge no one else has either. Either way, the problem of ether cleavage was still present whether one used eugenol, isoeugenol, or MVK as a starting point to get to the 3,4-dihydroxyphenyl compound.

Sooooooo, when the OTC safrole contest was in effect, LOTS of us (LOTS!!)contributed many interesting and potentially useful articles detailing many interesting and potentially useful ways to cleave that methoxyl group on the three position of eugenol.  Pyridine hydrochloride, HCl, HBr, HI (alone or with a PTC), KOH, NaOH, alkaline earth metals in either alcohol or polar-aprotic solvents, AlCl3, AlBr3, AlI3, iodotrimethylsilane, chlorotrimethylsilane and NaI, boron tribromide, boron tricholide, and even boron tiflouride etherate were suggested as potential cleaving agents.  Yet none of the articles ever used eugenol, isoeugenol, or MVK as the subject of their proceedures.  Way back when, Drone used his Crossfire account to search for possible leads. Even so, to this cat's knowledge, no one has found a published proceedure detailing the synthesis of allylpyrocatechol from eugenol, or even propenylpyrocatechol from isoeugenol, or 3,4-dihydroxyphenylacetone from MVK . . . until now.

Before the OTC safrole synthesis contest, our beloved Rhodium had created a thread detailing the synthesis of protocatechualdehyde from vanillin using AlCl3, pyridine and DCM as solvent.  He claimed that from what he had read of the article, he could see no reason why the same reaction couldn't be applied to eugenol.  Well, browsing through kitty's stack of papers the other day, kitty came across a copy of Rhodium's thread.  Only two bees had responded to it, and then, not suprisingly, the subject was quietly forgotten and the thread closed.

Wanting to know what Rhodium meant by "from what I have read of the article" kitty decided to hop over to the local library where they keep copies of JOC, and take a look at the article itself.

Here is the important stuff, basically what Rhodium reported about two years ago:

Protocatechualdehyde. -- Anhydrous aluminum chloride (9.7 g., 0.0724 mole) was suspended in a solution of 10 g. (0.0658 mole of vanillin in 100 ml of methylene chloride in an apparatus protected from atmospheric moisture.  While stirring briskly and cooling to maintain the temperature at 30-35 deg C, 22.9 g (0.290 mole) of pyridine was added slowly.  The reaction was vigorous; the resulting clear, light orange solution of the reaction complex was heated to reflux (45 deg C) and maintained at that temperature while stirring for 24 hrs.  The solution, which had darkened only slightly during the reflux period, was cooled to 25 deg C and the product hydrolyzed, while stirring and maintaining the temperature at 25-30 deg C, by the addition of dilute (15-20%) hydrochloric acid until the mixture was definitely acidic to Congo Red indicator.  Of the two phases present at this time, the lower methylene chloride layer contained most of the unchanged vanillin and essentially no protocatechualdehye; the latter was dissolved in the aqueous phase.  Evaporation of the methylene dichloride solution yielded 0.8 g of vanillin.  Extraction of the aqueous phase with ether followed by evaporation of the ehter left 7.9 g (87%) of pale yellow crystals of protocatechualdehyde melting at 153-154 deg C.

Not bad considering that the reaction is mild, the reagents are cheap, readily available, unwatched (except maybe pyridine), and recyclable.  No harmful byproducts (such as MeBr) are formed and the proceedure is simple enough for even the most pathetic of bees.  And, of course, it's always good that the yields are high.

Buuuut, the article didn't mention the use of any alkenyl precursors (i.e., eugenol) but did offer hope for MVK since 3-methoxy-4-hydroxy-acetophenone was used in the reaction yielding 3,4-dihydroxyacetophenone in 70% yield.

So, your favorite kitty went looking for other hopeful cleaving agents.  Some of the more notable are the boron trihalide-dimethylsulfide complexes which are stable and can be safely handled at room temperature.  This might give some hope to Drone's initial plan to apply boron tribromide as an efficient reagent for ether cleavage of eugenol.  Anyway, here's the reference: Tetrahedron Letters 1980, 21, 3731.

Feeling a little discouraged, kitty decided to search the CA volumes.  This had been done over two years ago (quite thoroughly) using numerous keywords too numerous to mention here.  None, however, yielded any terribly useful proceedures.  This time, following Rhodium's lead, kitty searched the index of each year after 1962 using the keyword "protocatechualdehyde" . . . and in volume 60 was found something interesting:

CA vol. 60 2847f

3-Alkylpyrocatechols.  Monsanto Chemical Co (by Robert G. Lange).  Fr. 1,330,382 (Cl. C 07c), June 21, 1963; U.S. Appl. June 21, 1961; 23 pp.  o-Hydroxyphenyl alkyl ethers, which can contain a halogen, a C1-4 alkyl, ALKENYL, or alkoxy group, NO2, SO3H or SH on the ring are hydrolyzed with acids in the presence of a tertiary amine and AlCl3 in an inert org. solvent to give the title compds.  Anhyd. AlCl3 (146.8 g) is added to a mixt. of 152 vanillin and 1500 ml of CH2Cl2 under anhydrous conditions, 348.0 g of pyridine added at 30-5 deg C, the mixt. heated 24 hrs. at 44 deg C, cooled to 20 deg C, and hydrolyzed with 15-20% HCl (acid to Congo red), the aq. phase sepd, the aq. mixt. extd. with ether, and the ext. evapd. the give protocatechualdehyde (I), m. 153-4 deg C, 87% yield.

Many other compounds were made, but to kitty, the most interesting one of them all is "3,4-(HO)2C6H3CH2CH:CH2"; namely, allylpyrocatechol from eugenol.

Hah!!! Kitty's won the contest!!! Yip-yip-yippie for the kitty!!!

Actually, Rhodium won, but didn't know it as he never proved his method.  Kitty guesses they can both share the $1000 that Strike now owes them ($500 for Rhodium, and from kitty's half, $250 going to Drone as they agreed that through their collaboration, they would split the money; good luck to you Drone, wherever you are).

Honorable mention should go to Cherrie Baby, as she (he?) once offered an article which used AlI3 made in situ from Al and I2 to hydrolyze the methoxyl group of vanillin to protocatechualdehyde in high yield.  More than likely, based on the information found in this post, that reaction will probably work on eugenol as well.

NOW, although this method looks ridiculously promising, there is still the issue about yields.  Somebee will have to get ahold of the original french patent (or the corresponding U.S. Patent, if there is one) in order to find out just how much allylpyrocatechol one gets from using this oh-so-wonderful-looking reaction.

Comments?

--PK

Semtex

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Re: Has psychokitty won the OTC safrole contest?
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2000, 04:01:00 AM »
Your like one of the James Brown(Hardest working man in showbiz) of the hive.  Good work...   8)


::)  ::)

Osmium

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Re: Has psychokitty won the OTC safrole contest?
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2000, 11:04:00 AM »
My comment to all that is still the same:  H2SO4.
Fuck the yield, eugenol is cheap and most bees would prefer a lower yielding OTC procedure over anhydrous compounds which can only be had from chemical suppliers. When you consider the amount of chems needed I'm even sure that the H2SO4 procedure will be much cheaper, even if it produced only 30% or so yields.

Rhodium

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Re: Has psychokitty won the OTC safrole contest?
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2000, 04:34:00 PM »
In the article I found, they stated that triethylamine worked fine as a substitute for pyridine, with just a slight reduction in yield. Triethylamine is MUCH cheaper than pyridine.

We just need someone who is willing to try this reaction out on eugenol (dirt cheap).

Osmium: H2SO4? For hydration of safrole to methylvanillyl ketone? But how do you plan to demethylate the aromatic ether?


http://rhodium.lycaeum.org


Osmium

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Re: Has psychokitty won the OTC safrole contest?
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2000, 04:36:00 PM »
No, for demethylation.

Rhodium

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Re: Has psychokitty won the OTC safrole contest?
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2000, 04:43:00 PM »
I have never seen H2SO4 being used for demethylations. Do you have any references on this subject? A trial run would be very easy if one had something to go on.


http://rhodium.lycaeum.org


Osmium

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Re: Has psychokitty won the OTC safrole contest?
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2000, 03:12:00 PM »
Yes I have seen it somewhere, but don't remember exactly where it was. Don't blame me, that was about five years ago  ;) .
 I think it was in one of those Willgerodt refs where PAA was prepared from styrenes/acetophenones (seem to remember it was in JACS or JOC 1947or 48? maybe, can't search it myself right now). During the final acid reflux (50% H2SO4?) of the phenylthioacetomorpholide intermediaries those researchers encountered demethylation of methoxies, p-MeO being cleaved the easiest and m-MeO was hardest to hydrolyse.

Somebody dump some eugenol or vanillin into 50-70% H2SO4, reflux the shit out of it for 12-24 hours and test the resulting tar with TLC/IR/GC or whatever is available.


Lilienthal

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Re: Has psychokitty won the OTC safrole contest?
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2000, 07:32:00 PM »
Dr. Beilstein says:

6-MeO-2-acetyl-naphtaline to 6-OH-Naphtyl-2-acetic acid:

Bull.Soc.Chim.Fr. 962, 963 1955 (Ormancey, Horeau)
J.Amer.Chem.Soc. 70, 2843, 2845, 2846 1948 (Jones et al)

Reagents: sulfur, morpholine, 140°C, heating the product mixture with acetic acid / dil. HCl.

psychokitty

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Re: Has psychokitty won the OTC safrole contest?
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2000, 10:54:00 PM »
Sorry, bubba, but I have a JACS article that specifically lists safrole, isosafrole, eugenol, isoeugenol and a few others as being energetically polymerized by concentrated H2SO4 at 0 deg C.  As for 50% H2SO4, I really doubt it will work.  You would be dealing with problems of hydrolysis at the allyl side chain, which although might be somewhat good, doesn't allow much room for the average bee to figure out what they've got in their mix that's good apart from that which is bad.

Besides, that JOC article I mentioned above talks about the degree to which 3-methoxy-4-hydroxy compounds are resistant to hydrolysis.  Boiling HBr, HCl, HI, AlCl3 in benzene, ad nauseum, had no effect on vanillin whatsoever, which leads me to believe that MVK never had a chance in hell of being hydrolyzed by these routes.  The AlCl3, pyridine (or triethylamine), DCM route is very specific for vanillyl-compounds.  m-methoxy-this, dimethoxy-that, and methylenedioxy-blah, blah, blah, were unaffected by the reaction. 

Anyway, I don't know what everyone is complaining about.  To get from just about anything to honey, you have to pretty much at least have some contact with a supply company.  This OTC problem is not as big an obstacle as you all think.  Clove oil is OTC enough.

Rest assurred, this method is going to get tried.  I've waited too long for this.

Eugenol is the future, my friends, in a world deprived of sassafras oil.  Remember that.

--PK

Osmium

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Re: Has psychokitty won the OTC safrole contest?
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2000, 11:31:00 PM »
You are right that probably no useful precursor can be isolated from a boiled eugenol or vanillin and H2SO4 solution, but my whole point is trying to find a way to make this demethylation easier. I have worked with vanillin before and most of you wouldn't believe how easily it is oxidised in solution. MVK is a whole different story though! All I want is a proof that the demethylation with H2SO4 works.

Lili: thanks, but I'm pretty sure that the procedure from the ref. used H2SO4. Can you look up some refs in Beilstein from around those years detailing acetophenone ---> PAA? And a synth for 4-MeO-PAA? I think both were in that ref.

Lilienthal

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Re: Has psychokitty won the OTC safrole contest?
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2000, 02:29:00 PM »
I did that, but that was the only source I found.
(I searched for all reactions of ring methoxy substituted acetophenones to phenylacetic acids)

psychokitty

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Re: Has psychokitty won the OTC safrole contest?
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2000, 05:52:00 AM »
Could somebody please get the original article from which I think Cherrie Baby got her method of vanillin ether cleavage?  The reference is Synthesis 1985, (4) 437-9 wherein is detailed the AlI3 (made in situ, I think) ether cleavage of many phenyl ether compounds with alkyl side chains.  I would like a little more information about the mechanism to see whether it can be applied to eugenol or isoeugenol ether cleavage.

I still don't even know if the article Cherrie Baby posted is the same one listed in the reference above (found in CA, BTW).  I tried to get to Cherrie Baby's original post in the "OTC Safrole contest, Part II" thread located somewhere in the original Hive database, but for some reason it just doesn't seem to exist anymore.

A quick response would be appreciated.

Thanks.

--PK

Lilienthal

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Re: Has psychokitty won the OTC safrole contest?
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2000, 12:04:00 PM »
S. Andersson, Synthesis 437, 1985:

Reflux aluminium powder with iodine in benzene or cyclohexane for 90 min to produce AlI3. Add equimolar amounts of phenolether, 0.25 equivalents of the phase transfer catalyst tetrabutylammonium iodide (chloride may also work), reflux for 20 min, and isolate the (poly-)phenol.

Representative substrates and yields from 13 examples given: 4-OH-3-MeO-toluene (98%), 4-OH-3-MeO-benzaldehyde (88%), 3,4-methylendioxy-benzaldehyde (84%), MeO-benzene (100%).

Has Lilienthal won the OTC safrole contest?  I think so, my fellow bees.  ;)

startinout

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Re: Has psychokitty won the OTC safrole contest?
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2000, 02:34:00 PM »
speculation speculation speculation
One needs to do the reactions to see how difficult they are. I have performed most of them often and as yet have had no success. The unsaturated sidechain seems to be the problem. In analgous reactions (i have several refences of no interest really) these types of compounds are always difficult to demethylate, producing low yeilds and/or very difficult to extract from the mess products. The py/alcl3 method produces tar when used on eugenol, of course I am sure there is something useful in the tar but not much fun when you want to do 100g+.  The vacuum distil on the tar resulted ina slow climb in temp over the course of the distil-conclusion-many compounds present. Also most of these references are performed on quanities that frankly would be quite useless for the type of industries authors on this site are engaged in. Have you ever tried to suspend 100+g of AlCl3(anhydrous) in anything, not much fun.
I am working on the AlI3 method currently and if this proves useful I will let all know when i have it nutted out (give me a couple of weeks). Importantly you have to use  a catalytic amount of PTC with the reaction, the reference specifies an iodine based quat but i will try with some Cl based ones also, shouldn't really matter as it is only in catalytic amounts. The whole process will hopefully be very very OTC,  ie aluminum foil, iodine (extract from kelp if you are really paranoid), PTC, aromatic solvent blah blah vlah la blah blah.
Now a question as i am rather new at the whole cladestine speak thing, what is this TS II everyone keeps referring to, and is there a TS I.
Final question, does anyone have any material data on allylpyrocatechol so i can confirm my observations, ie mp, bp, azeotropes, does it sublime, IR data, coupling constants, your help would be appreciated.


blue always
except for at the start

Lilienthal

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Re: Has psychokitty won the OTC safrole contest?
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2000, 06:51:00 PM »
TS 1 + TS 2: Total Synthesis (of MDMA) by Strike
3,4-dihydroxy-allyl-benzene:
mp: 46 ... 48.5°C, cryst. solvents: benzene / petroleum, ether, light petroleum
bp: 123 - 124 (1 torr), 123 - 125 (1 - 2 torr), 156 - 158 (16 torr), 155 - 157 (13 torr), 147 - 149 (10 torr), 141 - 144 (7 torr), 98 - 102 (5 torr), 139  (4 torr), 120 - 123 (2 torr)
solubility: 25 g/l in H2O at 26°C

Stonium

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Re: Has psychokitty won the OTC safrole contest?
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2000, 07:49:00 PM »





Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

psychokitty

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Re: Has psychokitty won the OTC safrole contest?
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2000, 05:49:00 AM »
SWIM is also interested in performing the Al, I2, PTC reaction as SWIM has all of the materials needed to get it done. However, Lil has not indicated how much solvent to use in the reaction.  Also, what is the mechanism at work here?  Is an intermediate complex formed between the phenolether and the AlI2?  Is this then hydrolyzed in some manner?  What SPECIFIC role does the PTC play in this reaction, in terms of it's contribution?

A quick response would be greatly appreciated.

--PK

startinout

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Re: Has psychokitty won the OTC safrole contest?
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2000, 07:20:00 AM »
the solvent the article used was mainly cyclohexane but some trials used benzene. I have a completed trial at present that just requires working-up, it seems alright though, no tar at least. i will post the results in 12 or so hours. if i recall they used 120ml of solvent for what was equivalent to 8.5g of eugenol. I used toluene.
Now mechanisically, the paper mentioned better access to the al-ether complex for the Iodide ions through use of the phase transfer catalyst.
From what i can gather the AlI3 complexes with the methyl ether, this is a very extothermic reaction. This in theory with time liberates the less stable carbocation (the methyl (CH3-), ie the complex want to hold onto the stronger one) the trick is in all of this is always breaking this Al-goodbit complex. None of the papers ever really speak about but the hydrolysis of the complex but it usually requires at least 2M HCl warmed on a steam bath for at least an hour, otherwise you get some purply very crystalline salt when losing all solvent. Anyway I will read the paper again when i get back to the lab, post a more comprehensible explanation and let you know how my trial went. if you are desperate to start, the production of the suspension of AlI3 takes a few hours so you can do that bit, ie mix the iodine, al powder/finelycut foil in the cyclohexane and/or beneze and/or equivalent and let it stir until the red iodine tinge has gone, i don't know how long it takes because I let mine stir overnight, he paper claims 2hr but you know what papers are like.
.............................Anyway more later
ps i understand urgency


blue always
except for at the start

Scooby_Doo

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Re: Has psychokitty won the OTC safrole contest?
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2000, 05:46:00 PM »
I'm with Semtex on that call "Go Kitty Go!" ;D

startinout

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More on the AlI3 trial
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2000, 03:03:00 PM »
It seemed to all go very well, I didn't take too much care with it and i have a more precise trial running at present. A big problem was filtering out the Al-sludge at the end, it just seemed to reside in everything and would immediately clog up any filtering system, I even tried running a vac pump through the side arm flask at 29in/hg and this didn't pull through. the NMR on the product is being run currently, i will let you know when i can confirm success with a complete write up for your  barn. A problem with the technique is definitely the amount of iodine required. To demethylate 500g of eugenol requires 1kg of Iodine, so i guess we need to order a 10kg bag from somewhere, any ideas???, maybe i should move to the dead sea.
A further note, has anyone perfomed the methylene bridging reaction on 4-allyl catechol, any pointers? It reads quite straight forward, but then they all do don't they, especialy this girl i was seing once, i thought she really loved me.......................


blue always
except for at the start