Author Topic: One more idea for LAHless nitrostyrene reductions  (Read 11157 times)

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Rhodium

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Re: One more idea for LAHless nitrostyrene reductions
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2001, 01:59:00 PM »
The H2SO4 can be replaced with I2 or methyl sulfate (or was it methanesulfonic acid?). There has been quite a few refs on this posted here at the hive (the original refs used the reducing agent to reduce amino acids to amino alcohols, but it would be suitable for nitrostyrenes too, as BH3*THF is a known nitrostyrene reducing agent).


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sunlight

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Re: One more idea for LAHless nitrostyrene reductions
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2001, 02:25:00 PM »
Could anyone post a possible procedure for nitrostyrene reduction with THF, NaBH4 and H2SO4 ?
I can run it almost immediatly.
And phosphorus pentasulfide is not expensive, it could be other good option.

foxy2

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Re: One more idea for LAHless nitrostyrene reductions
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2001, 02:42:00 PM »
Nobody mentioned Zn-Hg?
That seems like a reasonably yeilding procedure.


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Rhodium

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Re: One more idea for LAHless nitrostyrene reductions
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2001, 04:27:00 PM »
The byproducts from a phosphorous pentasulfide reduction consists of what? SO2 and H3PO4?

Foxy: Zn/Hg is supposed to be a moderately good reduction method (yields 50-75%) but it uses A LOT of mercury (about 10% of the weight of Zn). Not good for Gaia.


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Osmium

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Re: One more idea for LAHless nitrostyrene reductions
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2001, 05:38:00 PM »
Preparing Zn/Hg qaccording to most old refs is a messy reaction, usually requiring stirring of Zn with excess Hg salt solution for an hour or so. But there are better ways to prepare Zn/Hg.
I used this method:
Zn powder was covered with plenty of water, and some conc. HCl was added. Vigorous reaction of the Zn with the HCl. This removes the oxide coating on the Zn. Stir mixture well and add a spatula of Hg salt. H2 evolution stops almost immediately, due to the overvoltage phenomenon of Hg. Drain water, wash Zn/Hg with more water or EtOH or solvent of choice, and use in your reaction.

foxy2

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Re: One more idea for LAHless nitrostyrene reductions
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2001, 06:09:00 PM »
Is the huge amount of Hg necessary?

I have always wondered why the Al/Hg uses very small amounts while the Zn/Hg uses huge amounts of Hg

Osmium, did you get decent yields using modest amounts of Hg salts?  Or are the large amounts truely necessary?
lates
Foxy


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smiley_boy

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Re: One more idea for LAHless nitrostyrene reductions
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2001, 07:32:00 PM »
Foxy2,

Hey there. Actually, I did mention Zn(Hg), but I have to agree with Rh about its downsides.

If memory serves, unamalgamated Zn reduces nitrostyrenes to hydroxylamines. I can't remember where I read this, but I'm sure there are references for it somewhere.

Antocho,

Stupid 12 hr rule! Obviously, that should say say "Kak dela?" Oops.

sunlight

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Re: One more idea for LAHless nitrostyrene reductions
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2001, 08:32:00 PM »
There's also the russian patent (water, HCl, Zn), and it seems nobody have tested it. Anyway even if it works is only for small scale reactions, we need to find something more workable.
I insist in trying the THF.BH3 way. In TSII there's a sample for phenethylamine, but I don't see clearly the way to make the THF.BH3 from NaBH4 and H2SO4, just adding with stiring the equimolar amount of acid over the NaBH4-THF ?

foxy2

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Re: One more idea for LAHless nitrostyrene reductions
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2001, 09:02:00 PM »
Well I have no problem with hydroxylamines, considering they are usually just as active as the amines
MDOH-shulgin commentary

Anyone have success with unamalgamated Zn?
Anyone have a ref for this, i like the sound of unamalgamated
8)


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halfapint

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Re: One more idea for LAHless nitrostyrene reductions
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2001, 06:56:00 AM »
Smiley_Boy, I gotta hand it to you, you kicked down more than your share of outstanding methods here. This is a dynamite thread on reducing agents. Would the borane complex form in dioxane, as well as THF? (Dioxane, n. the distillate of ethylene glycol with dilute sulfuric acid. All solvent ethers, including cyclic ethers, should be distilled with a reducing agent like a ferrous salt to eliminate peroxide explosions.) Yet THF is obtainable from OTC formulations.

Neat trick with the lithium borohydride. Perhaps that's why nearly all elementary lithium salts are watched some places. I once considered trying to get it out of grease, hee-hee, before they started making those handy batteries. I learned from that pointer about the atomic radii.

Direct combination of sodium, aluminum and hydrogen still sounds cleaner to me than messing with aluminum chloride intermediate. Plus it's a process design challenge, depending on what temperature is required. Someday I'll build my hydrogen tower, a vertical countercurrent furnace with solids or liquids dropping from the top through a blast of hot hydrogen. Better warn the neighbors.
Edit:

for the price, there's also sodium amalgam - once the method of choice, now poo-pooed for a number of different reasons.


The deprecated sodium amalgam is available without recourse to elemental sodium, just by electrolyzing NaOH solution with a mercury cathode. When the mercury solidifies, it has absorbed enough sodium for use. This is also a prep for metallic sodium, by distilling off the mercury, a Really Hazardous Operation.



The whip hand, in reach, can take control from the gun hand.
I've done that.
Some say I'm bad.

halfapint

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Re: One more idea for LAHless nitrostyrene reductions
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2001, 07:03:00 PM »
As Lugh mentioned to me, I should have said electrolysing NaCl solution. I know I would have caught this error before I started dropping my mercury metal into lye. I have also seen a post in another thread, which says distillation of mercury is much safer if it is collected in water. Sounds reasonable to me; it also ensures that no sodium vapor which might have made it over will bee present in your mercury.

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