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Butanediol Isomer Question

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chip:
Can anyone tell me about one of the isomers of Butanediol that is 2,3 Butanediol ?

I want to know if you THINK that this would be a good pro-drug would facilitate the deep regenerative sleep that Sodium Oxabate (discretion ..) gives and if it would carry any toxicity ?

I am losing too much sleep and it's a real problem (my memories are not encoding well at all), not to mention the Cellulitis and other immunodeficient responses.

I have no non-therapeutic intentions at this stage, I am just desperate and damned annoyed that I have to go through this channel.

If you guys can't help me then nobody will.

Any input appreciated other than the obvious one.

dopamine:
2,3-butanediol is not a prodrug for GHB,. 
1,4-Butanediol is a prodrug to GHB, this is because--if i recall correctly--the enzyme 'alcohol dehydrogenase'   well.. dehydrogenates 1,4-butanediol to the free acid GHB in your liver.   If you were to ingest 2,3-butanediol that same enzyme would almost surely dehydrogenate it to MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone.)   MEK is mildly toxic and would not give you the the positive effects you're seeking.

chip:
Damn, i thought as much.

2,3 can be formed via a natural fermentation method and is synthesized much the same in vivo.

I might have to see if i can go the doctor route as my insomnia is aggravated with alcohol and GABA agonists.

Thanks for the toxicity assessment - i'll give up on that idea.

GBL was my favorite but the date rape risk must've got too high and i found nothing but nasty people dealing it and i'm not surprised the cops shut that shit down; it attracted the worst types of METH users who often did a myriad of stupid stuff when all i wanted was 2 x 4 hours chunks of deep REM sleep.

In Australia, the maximum penalty of 500-1000 ml is $500,000 fine and/or 20 years imprisonment.

... still, what price can you put on regular, solid naps ?!  :P

chip:
One more thing - i recently gave up opiates and opiods after 4 decades and my sleep never recovered.

Mild METH withdrawal sends me into a few days of OPIOID withdrawl and you would think that sheer exhaustion would be the dominant response but the opposite is true. And no, i am not mistaken as my endorphin regulatory genetics have been permanently altered/mutated.

I have been taking mostly d-AMP for 4 decades and METH for about 7.

i am sure that there is little documentation on aging poly drug users and i think that if i plead my case, i will succeed.

My doctors let me self prescribe as long as they handle the diagnoses so i should be good.

At least i have a plan and this is medical, not deviant drug seeking behavior.

Tsathoggua:
1,4-BDO is probably the most undesirable of all GHB  prodrugs. This is because of it's undergoing metabolism via the agency of alcohol dehydrogenase to y-hydroxybutyraldehyde before ending up being metabolized further via aldehyde dehydrogenase to GHB-(acid form).

Aldehydes in general are rather hard on the body, and best avoided if possible, in terms  of things to be ingested.

Some have been used internally, such as (practically speaking, since it ends up as 4-hydroxybutyraldehyde before conversion to GHB)1,4-BDO and the (now very much antiquated, if it is still used  at all in this day and age) sedative-hypnotic drug paraldehyde, which is the cyclic trimer of acetaldehyde, and most unpleasant in every possible respect. Unbelievably, it used to be given by intramuscular injection!!, although glass syringes had to be used to administer it in this fashion, due to it's propensity to melt plastic, like  chlormethiazole (a far, far superior, and indeed quite  excellent GABAergic depressant, acting on the barbiturate/picrotoxin binding site). It (paraldehyde) stinks something terrible, like burning tyres or burning plastics to Tsath's  nose, and he cannot imagine anybody ever willingly taking it more than once. Never injected it, IM or by any other route, that must burn like fury and if it doesn't cause tissue damage, Tsath' would be astonished. Nasty stuff, half way between pure unadulterated hangover, and outright poison (I.e acetaldehyde on the one hand, and the tetramer, metaldehyde on the other, metaldehyde being the active poison in most slug pellets).

Generally, aldehydes aren't  healthy in-vivo. And whilst he has always avoided 1,4-BDO for that reason, everything by way of 1st-hand accounts from other people who have used both it, and GBL, say that it is much rougher and unkindly to the GI tract, more irritating to the stomach than is GBL. And that it causes worse hangovers than GBL. Tsath' can't really say as GBL is all that pleasant in that respect, and he never could get it down orally without gagging, not helped by the repulsive stink of the stuff. Plugging was the only way he could get GBL inside him and keep it there.

Regarding date-rape, Tsath' doesn't doubt that people have been intoxicated for the purpose with various drugs, just thinking of it as a numbers game, but everything he has ever read, seems to suggest that of those women unfortunate enough to be targeted by the kind of filthy bastard slime who think it acceptable to get women intoxicated in order to fuck them (who need, IMO, to be strung up by the eyelids and slowly lowered toes-first into a big barrel full of hot, concentrated KOH, and dipped mm by mm, by perhaps a few mm per hour until they finally expire, sick little fuckups), that of those who have had their blood analyzed to determine what agent/s were  used, that in the VASTLY overwhelming majority of cases, alcohol was the sole drug involved. (although it is true that GBL is metabolized to GHB extremely rapidly by plasma pseudoesterases, and the half life of GHB itself is pretty short, so any significant delay in sampling, and also, delay between sampling and the testing of the samples taken would also contribute to disappearance of, or significantly lowering the levels of GHB, at least unless the samples were heat-treated or otherwise treated in such a way as to denature the enzymes in question)

But overwhelmingly, it is alcohol, in large quantities, most probably willingly consumed in excess, that has been present in cases of intoxicant-assisted rape by unfamiliar individuals (Tsath' doesn't like to dignify it with the term 'date rape', it's fucking  rape, no matter how one tries to sugar-coat it or make it seem less serious than a blatant rape at knifepoint or after physical violence, and just as disgusting)

And one other thought which makes 1,4-BDO, GBL or GHB seem rather less likely than fr.ex benzos or other sedatives in those cases which have involved another  depressant being used, is that BDO is nasty, acrid, stinking stuff, GBL is also foul smelling, foul tasting etc. and in the case of GHB, it would involve a good few grams of what for all intents and purposes, as far as consumption goes, requires the ingestion of quite a lot of salty-tasting drug.

Pretty sure that if someone were to squirt enough GBL into a drink to knock Tsath' out (he's no tolerance to G or it's precursors, doesn't use the stuff anymore), considering that a wouldbe rapist isn't going to want to take any chance of being caught, and cannot guarantee that their intended victim would consume more than one drink, its all going to more than likely go into that first drink. And a KO-dose of GBL or 1,4-BDO is going to make the drink taste pretty revolting, or at least very 'off', it seems quite likely that it would arouse suspicion from the first mouthful or two. And who wouldn't notice 5-6g of salt, if added to a pint?

Pretty sure it'd be noticeable that something wasn't right with the spiked drink. One would have already to be pretty pissed for there to be any chance of it not being noticed. And that goes severalfold for something like GBL or 1,4-BDO, due to the disgusting, acrid taste and the smell and taste of bitter, burning car tyres.

It's unfortunate that depressant drugs get characterized as 'date rape drugs', stigmatizing those who wish to use  it legitimately, and if shared with a woman, then shared knowingly and with consent. The actions of the tiny minority, rarely, thus reflecting on all users, the overwhelming majority of them who never for a moment would even consider such repugnant actions.

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