supercooling acetone

[Don_Majic_Juan]

alright,
   we're looking to cool some acetone way way down to run it through our condensor during the al-hg.  The only method I know of would be to dump some dry ice in the acetone tub...but wouldn't the boiling dry ice create so many air bubbles that the acetone never would come in contact with it thus causing the desired cool down?  any alternative method of "super" cooling a liquid for our purpose would be greatly appreciated.

looking for help here...don

- mama se mama sa ma ma cusa
  mama se mama sa mamacusa

[Pheesees]

Dry ice would work provided the amount of hest removal desired does not exceed the amount removed by the dry ice. This will depend on the relative sizes of your condenser & your acetone tub. What is your desired temp?

Drugs are the cheapest & most reliable form of space transport.

[Osmium]

Use ice water for the Al/Hg.

[terbium]

Use ice water and a Friedrichs condenser.

[firestorm]

Hi,
maybe this could be interesting for you:

Post 42819 (missing)

(firestorm: "Cooling Mixtures", Newbee Forum)

Firestorm

Sorry for my bad english!

[Lino]

My old chem prof. Dr Ali Hg says regular tap works fine. Make sure the vapour front stays

[Don_Majic_Juan]

Pheesees:  as cold as I can get it
Osmium:  thanks...funny face ya got there
terbium:  thanks...what does the Friedrichs condensor look like?  Would it be the one with linear bubble shapes inside it?
firestorm:  thanks
Lino:  thanks also

alright...(now that I've licked everybody's ass that's helped me here)

   I know to stay away from west condensors...those are the simple straight line condensors?
   I'm thinking of getting a 400m Vigoreaux (sp?) which I THOUGHT were the ones with the bubble shapes inside them...but possibly I'm wrong here (I was under the impression that the bubble shapped type is one of the more efficient condensers one can use).  If anybody can shed some light...thanks...don

  FLAME AWAY !!!    WHEEEEEEEE!!!!!


- the motherfucker said 'strategerie' - oh shit that was funny !

[SuNNySide]

did you ever think of using a (dry ice, dewar condenser)


seems like it would work very good! But then again ive been wrong.

ummmmmmmm

[SuNNySide]

Ok idea! make something like this
                          (to condenser)       (from condenser)
                                         /            /
                                   X   /   X    X  /   X
                                   X  (1) X    X (2)  X
                                   X____X==X____X
in #1 is acetone witch is conected to #2 ^by a hose or what ever you got that is cool with acetone.
#2 is full of dry ice and acetone. This is where you will put your pump reaturn. This will bubble over the dry ice
and return thru the hose to tank one where it will be super cooled acetone ready to go!! MAYBE?


ummmmmmmm

[Don_Majic_Juan]

thanks SuNNySide...I'll definatly give it some thought

- mama se mama sa ma ma cusa
  mama se mama sa mamacusa

[flalabratz]

D-M-J: For what it's worth - I recently made this setup:
A distillation apparatus; used 10mm (OD) hose from the condenser, to a cam driven (one that you can put different size hoses in the cartridge - the roller-cams push fluid through the hose), adjustable pump line to a hose barb - which I had installed at the bottom of a 5 gal. insulated bucket, then another hose from a second hose barb - which I installed on the opposite side of the same bucket, near the bottom - running to the inlet hose barb of the pump, then a line from the pump to the other hose barb on the condenser.
I put an 8 lb. bag of ice into this bucket, a handful of rock salt, then added water. A vented lid seals the bucket - the vent is a simple cyndrical piece of rubber, which will only open inward - when vacuum is present.
I hope this helps.

It's always IMHO

[terbium]

what does the Friedrichs condensor look like?  Would it be the one with linear bubble shapes inside it?

The one with the bulbs in it is an Allihn condenser, it is no better than a a staright tube Liebig condenser. The Freidrich has a sort of cold finger in it that the vapour has to impinge on, much like the dewar condenser picture posted by SuNNySide except that in the Friedrichs the cooling finger is closed except for inlet and outlet hose connections. If you look at a well known general (not just scientific) auction site under Scientific Apparatus and search for Friedrich you should find a picture of one.

[terbium]

I'm thinking of getting a 400m Vigoreaux (sp?)

A Vigreux column is a fractionating column for fractional distillation. It is not intended to be used as a condenser, for example, it has no cooling water jacket.

[Lino]

Please Don Majic: forget the supercooled acetone crap. (are you windin' us up?) A Graham condensor (coiled tube inside) works most efficiently, IMHO and is also cost effective. I hope you are using MeOH as solvent (boils@65ish). TAP WORKS FINE.  

[Don_Majic_Juan]

thanks ! all for the input here.

Lino,  about the Graham...I was under the impression that condensors which run vapors through an internal coiled tube (surrounded by a watercooled jacket) tend to be inefficient as sometimes the coiled inner tube is too small and vapors at times condense and then get pushed upward and out the condensor?

So does the graham circulate cooling water through the coiled inner tube or does it route the vapors which it intends to condense through this coiled inner tube?   thanks ... d

- mama se mama sa ma ma cusa
  mama se mama sa mamacusa

[Lino]

Don Majic.
 A Graham condensor has a coil runing through it . Water flows through the coil. A 160mm (effective length) 310mm (overall length) has a surface area of 2.0 (x10-2m2). Graham with 300mm (effective) 465mm (overall) has a surface area of 4.0.

An Allihn condensor (water jacket but no coil): 400mm (effective) 545mm (overall) has a surface area of 1.8. So the Graham beats the Allin in terms of efficiency and compactness. Also on cost.

A 160mm Graham will use no more than a trickle of water flow to condense toln, MeOH,  etc. Acetone and ether require a faster flow. Depends on water temp. though Hope this helps.

[Don_Majic_Juan]

yes...yes...thanks Lino

- mama se mama sa ma ma cusa
  mama se mama sa mamacusa

[lostboys]

you may add liquid nitrogen to the acetone with any side effects or problems, keep additions small and with thermomenter in acetone, it will cool the acetone to -190 C.

[Archaeoptrix]

much obliged lb

alhambra