The Hive => Novel Discourse => Topic started by: dwarfer on January 17, 2002, 01:02:00 PM
Title: Please help on direct hydrogenation conjecture
Post by: dwarfer on January 17, 2002, 01:02:00 PM
<<investigating the extension of the pressurized pipe, superheated solvent technique to an old Lone Ranger post: need more refined suggestions for (theoretical) implementation trials, please.
The proposal is simply the addition of aluminum powder to a pH 2 or so aqueous HCl and pseudo or eph mixture in a SS sealed pipe, with redundant relief valves plumbed in to set a 1000PSI [H2]top limit.
Vigorous mechanical shaking would be observed from a distance..
Would the monoatomic hydrogen render moot a catalyst?
If not, would 5%Pd/C be necessary? How much?
Am I correct that this would be better done in acid, or would it make a difference? (Al powder is even more productive in NaOH...}
If the pipe were submerged in 100C water, would it make a significant difference? (yield-wise..)
Would a reaction of this sort be complete in minutes, hours, or days?.
Higher pressures up to about 1,500 PSI could be attained, but i would prefer to not push it.
Is "hydrogen embrittlement" anything to worry about for susequent runs.?
thank you
dwarfinger...
Title: Re: Please help on direct hydrogenation conjecture
Post by: terbium on January 17, 2002, 09:56:00 PM
To have any hope of this working you are going to need a catalyst, perhaps Raney Nickel. Probably also some heat. And alcohol as a solvent.
Yeah, heating stainless steel in the presence of chloride, acid and high pressure hydrogen could lead to structural problems. You will want at least type 316 SS, Monel would probably be better but also probably unobtainable.
Title: Re: Please help on direct hydrogenation conjecture
Post by: amalgum on January 17, 2002, 10:46:00 PM
U-Ni-BA catalyst
Title: Re: Please help on direct hydrogenation conjecture
Post by: foxy2 on January 18, 2002, 02:12:00 AM
Making an ester would probably help also
NoJailForPot (http://www.nojailforpot.com/)
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Title: Re: Please help on direct hydrogenation conjecture
Post by: dwarfer on January 18, 2002, 03:42:00 PM
Thank you for your help.
If I can arrange a monel metal liner, I'll do it: i doubt that it would take the pressure directly..
Wonder if HDPE as a liner would protect the SS??
<< was hoping that the catalyst could be dispensed with:(with H+) ==================
< Hanging up spurs for unk. period of time.
wishes W. well.
thanx agin d :( dwarfinger...
Title: Re: Please help on direct hydrogenation conjecture
Post by: terbium on January 18, 2002, 07:44:00 PM
<<<accomplished a KRZ type reaction with PdC @ 60 PSI using molecular hydrogen and PdC, in alcohol: (2yrs ago or so...) Really? You converted pseudoephedrine to methamphetamine this way! If this really works you should stick with this. Is any acid used in the reaction mix?
Title: Re: Please help on direct hydrogenation conjecture
Post by: Organikum on January 26, 2002, 08:14:00 PM
terbium, what makes you think hydrogenation over Pd-C/BaSO4 or Pt-C/BaSO4 at pressure 60psi up and temperature below 80°C might not work? Alcohol as solvent, up to 10% of H2SO4 added only if the starting substance is not very clean? Press. up, temp. down, no light = reduction on the carbon-chain. (this was told to me as a rule in org. chem.)
so i am still learning, i would appreciate every hint in this matter.
Orgy
knowledge is a sharp knive - do you know "HANSAPLAST"?