Author Topic: Ker Plunking for quality and quantity  (Read 54294 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Worlock

  • Guest
Ker Plunking for quality and quantity
« on: October 11, 2000, 02:11:00 AM »
I
n reply to:
Dunno if you're still using this acct.
but I have question regarding an emulsion the size of texas, this thingg took up
the whole polar....Get back to me::

positron@scientist.com

-mnm





Yep
Still use this

Just finished a big project on this related to a bees report that the methanol was causing oxidation in his product, and it led into emulsions and the caused a big stir among many of people.

I'll assume you are speaking about meth emulsions  because the
-OH on the E molecule makes it more water soluble than
Meth it tends to have a different look and other problems. And this method isprimarily a post rteaction technique.

Actually, both molecules are mostly made up of hydrocarbons which would be non-polar. but because of the nitrogen =NH they are capable of hydrogen bonding a very strong, ionic bond with water, mediated mostly by the activity of Chlorine, or sulfate,or whatever anion is being used.

The point is is that in addition to pH, the concentration of the anions is extremely important as to how water or oil soluble these amines will be.
The emulsions are usually a mixture of waxes,water, fuel and damaged ephedrine and meth molecules often  wrapped around an air bubble.
This is why many bees say there is nothing of value in an emulsion , yet others of us feel that there is something there, only it has a problem.

If the E or M molecule has been under the influence of an
oxidizing environment, such as hot methanol, ethanol, water , peroxide and other
things(we know it has) then there is a tendency to break apart the ring structure or form an alcohol on the carbon ends of the molecule.
or form a polymrer bridge between two nitrogens, or any of the dozens of potential break points can join to another molecule and form and an oxide side chain or link together chains of damaged molecules
 
In addition to making the molecule more polar, and generally making it useless for our purposes,  the formation of the  polymere of an oxygen bridging together to two molecules at
the nitrogen or almost any free end. Whatever the  case the molecules attract ions that make them more water soluble , producing a low yield and a larger emulsion.
 
This is even more evil because not only are these oxides
carcinogenic,  but they stink,  and blacken your pipe , and I suspect some actually counter act the effect of meth, and can make you sleepy, I am almost certain of this.
AS I have eheard of peoplem taking some Meth and then yawning and becoming tired.

Preventative measures then are the reduction of high temperatures when
evaporating solvents, by using the hair dryer to suppliment heat from below, and
simply taking more time to let the stuff evaporate.

Peroxide is a mixed
package, it may increase oxidation but it will also dissolve some of those
oxygen briges that are making your meth into what many would desribe as a simple
form of plastic. hehehehe
 
Primary to correcting this if it has already
occurred is  known as

ker plunking - I'll explain the name later.

Take the reaction mixture once complete,  filter out the phos.
Add a large  amount of naptha or toluine to the water based acidic
reaction mixture. By a large amount, I mean a lot, at least as much fuel as there
is water then add 20% additional fuel above the 100% you just added.

It is a game of concentratrations  of ions and chems and your in it to WIN.
Add a reasonable amount of  NaOH not enough to make the freebase but close to it say a about pH 10 of the water solution.

Bring the whole thing slowly up to a boil, add in a  few
 pieces of activated charcoal or small pieces of broken glass, this causes a much more even boil and is to prevent the bumping of big gas bubble forming.

This big gas bubble was how the technique became known as
ker-plunking , but it is best to avoid that ker plunk because it could blow out the flask


When you have a nice steady easy
generation of gas bubbles rising from the water moving up to the fuel layer (this is best with naphtha) then you will begin repairing some of the damaged molecules of meth they rise in the bubble and hit the hot naptha , this often
will free the molecule of the ion that is causing the breach in the ring or whatever  and absorbs the meth it into the hydrocarbon fuel layer,  where it is bathed in exactly what it needs, hydrogens and carbons without heavy ionic pull. tHE METH SOON GOES BACK INTO THE WATER SOLUTION, THAT IS WHY YOU NEED A LOT OF FUEL SO THE METH MOLECULE will spend enough time traviling throught the naptha to get fixed, naptha is a mixture of hydrocarbons, that mixture works best.

Ever so carefully add a few drops of peroxide now and theN

KEEP ADDING NAoh TO RAISE THe pH , this takes time (up to an hour).
You  can see the crap coming off the speed, sometimes , often it is an iodide atom attached or a chlorine, or some wax or
just two or more meth molecules stuck together that break free of each other.

AS you might expect the final product from this , will be much cleaner and a damn good buzz. Needless to say caution is important , eye protection is a must and
precautions to prevent fire are extremely important

Continue adding a liitle peroxide and some NaOH, until you reach the point where the lower water layer turns a milky white,
that is the meth finally becoming a freebase.

Stop

let it cool , a little bit

swirl in some more NaOH tO BE SURE YOU HAVE HIt A pH over 12.5, let is sit and separate,

You should  end up with a mirrored interface surface, emulsion free , and as a
bonus for doing this time consuming, hot and potentially dangerous proceedure
will be a great yield of some of the highest quality  dope imaginable.

By
using this method, and /or recrystalization and/or steam distillation , the
quality of the product goes right through the roof.

THis is what some of the old timers swear by,  but they are rarely sure why they do things,  they just do 'em,  cause that is how they learned







Worlockium
www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/4986/two/start.html

Pyros

  • Guest
Re: Ker Plunking for quality and quantity
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2000, 02:19:00 AM »
Yes indeed, that pristine mirror is the stuff that dreams are made out of. And the 'dope' produced following the advice of The Great One (Worlock) is indeed the best to be had anywhere.

PVnRT_NC8

  • Guest
Re: Ker Plunking for quality and quantity
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2000, 08:07:00 AM »
Arrg I musta kinda screwup here umm but still [produced great dividends maybe evn less recovered...um nedd to figure out why that stuff balls up like a coloid, furthermore this reaction lacked the luster of the last........allthough it could be detected after a tone wssh and finally wasses kinda clean after a few hot washes w/ tone and meoh this meoh seems to pull the suggar off or something anys I now go by flavor....the aci salt seem to become pyrolysed and then become freebase??? due to ashes.

um so what I wana do is get repeat instead of cake i wana little balls to rool up so there is needed a great paln of conquest.


A010

PVnRT_NC8

  • Guest
Re: Ker Plunking for quality and quantity
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2000, 03:28:00 PM »
Kerplunking works:)

also used cacl then basified from meoh/yone into napatha

ummm well there was a bit less recovered the rea; interesting thing when going backwards is that it can snow in that np lkayer that is pretty cool.. :P


A010

SuNNySide

  • Guest
Re: Ker Plunking for quality and quantity
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2000, 03:45:00 PM »
Could this be dun on product that has alredy been finished?
To improve it. What would the prosses be ? just wana stop
yawning!!!!!!!


Put that in you'r pipe and smoke it. whats that noise?
sshhhhhhh!

Jacked

  • Guest
Re: Ker Plunking for quality and quantity
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2000, 06:43:00 PM »
I was just telling mnm about this and had no way to tell him why because I did untill now know what was going on, other than a few minor diffrences and the killer reason to why this is what to do.
I called it washing the HI, never would I have imagened the repairing of molicules was going on.
I'm glad he posted this problem to you, even
though it's not the emulshion he was refuring to, It was more than likley it was there too, I believe he had a polimer slip through from the few hours we talked about it. I'll let him discribe it scence it was the kids around there that seen it first hand.

I cant wait for you next post on incressing yield from P/P to 85%, you know with all these birch babys round here, they even got hillbillys doing it, hahahahahhaa

 Very good information, this should open everyones
eyes to yield's incressing. Thank you for this indepth look into the Unknown.

 




The End Result is Directly Connected to the Effort Applied. This includes Life,

notfman

  • Guest
Re: Ker Plunking for quality and quantity
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2000, 06:59:00 PM »
I think I must bee misunderstanding something (as usual) but, wouldn't this preclude steam distillation since the NP has already been added?

:P



PVnRT_NC8

  • Guest
Re: Ker Plunking for quality and quantity
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2000, 08:17:00 PM »
Steam dist not attempted yet....

Anyways the only feasable solution has been to wash prewash rinse with solvent of choice
????
if ya were to hot rinse in meoh how soluable is the stuff??
dex sulp dont seem to soluable???  um oh dear it is partly soluable so ya must crash it out with tone mixture so the basic thing would be to heat it up in a tone meoh mixture and then bubble this into a np then remove this np and remove all the soluable stuff then basify finalyy heating it up into the nonpolar layer, now the cool thing was when adding the cacl calst while so dreaming it snowed XTYL clear into the non polar solution and it was a beautiful xtyline latice looking like snowflakes.....however when poofing the freebase up and out w./ addation of lye to the steaming mix as previosly described a think viscious emulsion was removed easilly and it was positive for potency...however one could also just raise the freebase and gass and then evap or put into water, it just is not convient at this time to be thinking non,cyclotron device at this time.....so next experiments shall rely on these new dividends this need be next the magnesium/zinc salts? will these ball up propperly into the right configereation or did i miss something as per ussual, either steam distill or centrifuge i am guessing this centrifugation will solve these suggar problems now that they have been reduced and or elliminated problem number one susspect due to washing attempts to wash fiber and suggar only sucessfull at a loss percent of total possible yield this is bothersome, what about a electronic or membranous filter just to remove that fat buly fiber,,I know sand filter but the reactions are truelly micro.


A010

wayupnorth

  • Guest
Re: Ker Plunking for quality and quantity
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2000, 11:39:00 PM »
::)   Has anyone here tried deaeration as part of the extraction process.  I am curious as to possible benifits of using spinning vane with vacuumn deaeration in regards to increased managebility of all emulsions with near elimination of some.  As most would not have ground glass for stirring and vacuumn in a seperatory funnel, it would seem investigation of using a mag stirrer, with lets say, a top stoppered vacuumn flask filtration the strongest vacuumn one would normally have available might not be worth investigating.  Most the emulsion I run into seem to be, as W just said, real airy in nature.  To think of it so were the cottage cheese ones.      Lots more thoughts than available time.   ::)


Phed up, or MaHaung over ?  TODAY ONLY  Judge reeks havoc within !

Jacked

  • Guest
Re: Ker Plunking for quality and quantity
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2000, 09:22:00 AM »
Worlock, Followed the procedure you laid out to the mark. Currently pushing it back to the polar as
I post this. I might be posting the 85% yield write up judging by the amount of HCl added and the pH, I’m curious about the second or third pull. Do you even need one. It seems the second pull is very week with base.
The interface was a sheet of glass, It was just as you said. When a drop of 3% H202 hit it, debre displaced and bubbling was intense until a swirl displaced it. It would turn black and vanish in the lower layer, at one time I could have swore ribbons of smoke was spiraling up through the non-polar. Looking through the layer at first was waves of heat, towards the end it had that wrinkly look, loaded.

Any thing here out of the ordinary so far?



The End Result is Directly Connected to the Effort Applied. This includes Life,

SuperAssman

  • Guest
Re: Ker Plunking for quality and quantity
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2000, 05:31:00 AM »
Mirrorsville man! And with fucking Sudafed too! Can't wait to check the yield. ;D

Worlock

  • Guest
Re: Ker Plunking for quality and quantity
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2000, 12:12:00 PM »

The kerplunk is done with the filtered but crude acidic reaction mixture.

************

If you have refined product in HCl salt form,  that you wish to clean up,  a recrystalization is the way to go,


Take the meth salt , dissolve in a minimum amount of alcohol,
If it stays cloudy, first dilute it with more alcohol then filter it

Boil off some of the aclcohol until the meth just begins to show any sign of crystal formation,  add a little alcohol (drop wise) to make the meth fully dissolve again while still hot , add in 20 ml of acetone and put in freezer for at least 6 hours, 12+ hours is much better

Remove from freezer and filter ice cold as fast as you can, then while still in the filter after the fluid has been drained off lightly wash the surface of the crystals with a small amount of cold alcohol. Simply add enough cold alcohol to remove the surface residue and strip away the outer layer, of the crystal, it will have some conntaminents in it, This will produce some prime quality gogo.


The filter fluid and wash fluid  has meth in it, do an A/B on it to clean it up, it is some nasty shit


Worlockium



Worlock

  • Guest
Re: Ker Plunking for quality and quantity
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2000, 12:21:00 PM »

Correct,
 if you were to kerplunk then  steam distillation would not need to be done , unless you wanted to,

The Non-polar fuel would create a problem with the steam since initially various fractions of the fuel would come across one at a time, then fuel and  meth  mixed, I would imagine. A thermometer would come in real handy.

But I have never steamed out the non polar , so that would be only a guess, No big deal though,  the salt would be made as normal and it should be real clean.


The kerplunk  result in a very, very,  fine product.
You of course,  still must  use the separatory funnel
do a couple of water washes then
make the HCl salt by the adding the HCl/water and
evaporate,
and your done .
Some very sweet meth.


Worlockium



Worlock

  • Guest
Re: Ker Plunking for quality and quantity
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2000, 12:23:00 PM »
Jacked
yeah mnm had a different problem all together


Worlockium


Worlock

  • Guest
Re: Ker Plunking for quality and quantity
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2000, 12:54:00 PM »
Jacked
Intreresting with the color changes, that is a good indication of how much iodide ion is in the mixture, when the peroxide hits it.
The ker-plunk can be done with out peroxide and just using the NaOH
But a little peroxide seems to do something prtty wild.

2nd and 3rd pulls???
depends , I rarely get anything out of them, once the mixture is pH-ed below 8.0,  and you have shaken it well,  and the pH is stable, your not going to get a 2nd or 3rd pull. I will hit it with a good shot of HCl  , evaporate it , the fumes will kill you for maybe a gram of nasty mostly table salt, with a little meth in it.

But I have seen those that THE SECOND PULL IS THE MAJOR pull, and I guess it tells you something about the first pull, they did . It was superficial and will have pulled some of the cream off the top and should be quite good for personal stash.

There are as many ways to do it as there are cooks and many cooks never do it the same way twice.

The only people you can point a finger at , are those that screw up and get nothing.

But hell we never walked down that road...errr....duh.... willingly .


Worlockium


Jacked

  • Guest
Re: Ker Plunking for quality and quantity
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2000, 02:21:00 PM »
Quite right on the pull, -0- on the second pull.
I was impressed with that, alittle worried at first, but for nothing as it turns out
About the peroxide, I wasn't sure about the amount and didn't want to go heavy knowing of its power over E, now I know the meth molacule is strong but not understanding exactly what was going on I just added a drop every 5 mins or so, did not want to see how much it would take for a color change. Could you give some guide lines or ratios on the addition of the 3% peroxide. I say there is a lot more to say here concerning yield I believe. Wont say yet but let a few more go down like this one and I'll be rushing back to tell all what Jacked done. hehehe
 


The End Result is Directly Connected to the Effort Applied. This includes Life,

Jacked

  • Guest
Re: Ker Plunking for quality and quantity
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2000, 02:21:00 PM »
Radio Edit


The End Result is Directly Connected to the Effort Applied. This includes Life,

PVnRT_NC8

  • Guest
Re: Ker Plunking for quality and quantity
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2000, 05:17:00 PM »
Best of the best was very speedy and halucinolike, came on and disseapeared?  ever huff gas?

Um very much like huffing gass high transedential rush up and down to flatliner>...ver slight distirting visuals eyes closed, feeling of elevator musical overtures.......used pinkeye susspect this catalyst......ch3-cn-co added as per w/amine was heated and deprotected at the nh part ussing um stuff like iron stain remover made glass of it a few times allready.....now interested in si-B wo oxylate addations deprotected amine part  sulph apparently intact at para, proaly this is a vey small sample 1mg in regular mix total dose ten mg   I allways kerplunked it, I am looking foreward to the vacume actuated devices. thaks for the write up again.
thigngs happen here at nh
ring ring ring
\  s  ! s  /
  111-tri this part protected

a very strange transition state apparenty due to perixidation or ethrification or bolth....due to hooh/yp
thus the wanted tranformation is possible up upon the amine there which is not the ussual situation i susspect, um soluable into meoh supprissingly so very soluable from a fresh bottle very much so.

Makes pure d-meth i susspect:) caboxylate acid sulfite


Amethystium

gemini33

  • Guest
Re: Ker Plunking for quality and quantity
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2000, 08:52:00 AM »
Worls
You said, "... The filter fluid and wash fluid  has meth in it, do an A/B on it to clean it up, it is some nasty shit "

My question is is this "nasty shit" nasty in a good way or bad way?? I mean is it worth the effort to go back through the a/b  process considering the better product is already is crystals?? Just wondering sweetie...

xoxoxo
gemini

Jacked

  • Guest
Re: Ker Plunking for quality and quantity
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2000, 11:06:00 AM »
Yes every thing done is worth the effort, and nasty is nasty, I all goes into the pot for
purification & recrystalizing, The little things done = bigger yield ##'s.


The End Result is Directly Connected to the Effort Applied. This includes Life,