The Vespiary

The Hive => Methods Discourse => Topic started by: CleanCrank on January 07, 2002, 06:31:00 PM

Title: phenylalanine
Post by: CleanCrank on January 07, 2002, 06:31:00 PM
Does anyone know anything about synthesis of methamphetamine or amphetamine from the amino acid phenylalanine? Is this even possible? Need some more info and input.
MY TAPEWORM TELLS ME WHAT TO DO...
Title: Re: phenylalanine
Post by: Rhodium on January 07, 2002, 06:36:00 PM

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/amphetamine.phenylalanine.html (https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/amphetamine.phenylalanine.html)

is a good start, and

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/archive/cooh-2-ch3.pdf (https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/archive/cooh-2-ch3.pdf)

provides a one-step reaction.

Unfortunately it doesn't get any easier than this.
Title: Re: phenylalanine
Post by: CleanCrank on January 07, 2002, 06:43:00 PM
Yeah, I just looked that over before I put that post out there. I guess I am just trying to gather more info as far as quality, yield, etc. and see if anyone had anything else to ponder about it. Not that I doubt you. I don't. Thanks.
MY TAPEWORM TELLS ME WHAT TO DO...
Title: Re: phenylalanine
Post by: masterofpuppets on February 22, 2002, 04:48:00 PM
Carboxylic acids are pretty tricky to get of amines (methinks that it may have something to do with the naturally acidic COOH group being attracted to the naturally basic NH2 group.
I wouldn't do that if I were you.....
Title: Re: phenylalanine
Post by: urushibara on February 26, 2002, 08:39:00 PM
I heard somewhere the idea that electro-catalytic reduction could be done on phenylalanine and it changes to opposite chiral amp (really there's no chiral switcheroo, just that phe is named by the chiral of the acid, which is opposite to the chiral of the amine) I can't seem to find the synth it on tfse. help? I think it should be possible to reductive hydrogenate phe, which changes the carboxylic acid to a methyl. I'm probably wrong tho. L-meth isn't shit, is just not as good, takes more to get the same effect. yes/no? If you want only D, start with L-phe, more expensive, but it is available. amp to meth is not that hard really, just another reduction with formaldehyde (para)
C12H16N2
Title: Re: phenylalanine
Post by: PrimoPyro on February 27, 2002, 02:42:00 AM
1.I already told you to search for "Kolbe" here. There are plenty of threads on it here, and it is also on Rhodium's website. I myself didn't find anything on this reaction until PolytheneSam told me the name of it (the Kolbe Reaction) and that it was too here.

2.L-phenylalanine is the cheaper of the two pure isomers. D-phenylalanine is the ungodly expensive one. DLPA, the racemic mixture of the two, is the cheapest.

                                                   PrimoPyro
The Water Will Be Your Only Mirror
Title: Re: phenylalanine
Post by: Lem2 on February 27, 2002, 10:07:00 AM
Was the Kolbe ever proven to work w/ Phenylalanine? I remeber some people saying that it did, and some people saying it didn't and a WHOLE LOT of people bitching about whether it would work or not even though they didn't know for sure(no offense to anyone).

Oh, and System of a Down ROCKS! just for clarification, it is: "My tape worm tells me where to go." :P
He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.
Title: Re: phenylalanine
Post by: urushibara on March 08, 2002, 06:54:00 AM
I found some posts from methwerx entitled 'the kolbe in my grandmothers diary', which seemed to give the impression that this route works.

Post 185570 (https://www.thevespiary.org/talk/index.php?topic=12562.msg18557000#msg18557000)

(WizardX: "Re: A strange, possible, amphetamine synthesis", Serious Chemistry) by wizard x seems to also gives more accurate information.

So, I will regurg what I gather from all of these informations:

Both the phenylalanine and acetic acid used must be made into sodium salts (via NaOH). Dimethyl Formamide is the best solvent to get the phenylalanine dissolved (it's nice and cheap too!). Pt electrodes, quite close together, are required to get adequate current flow happening (1cm or less). And the mix needs to be kept nice and cool while it's cooking up - and stirring helps too. An excess of the sodium acetate salt is required to ensure the reaction is biased towards the formation of amphetamine formation, but not too much as this causes a lot of intermediates, where the radicals of especially the acetate bond to the =O and other similar undesirable products are produced.

Okay, so the Wiz says 19-24% is the yield, which sounds fine considering that phenylalanine is freely available, and inexpensive. (even from 15g extracted from tablets, that's still 3g amphetamine, a reasonable quantity of precursor for a nano cook to meth)

The question I have is - will the amphetamine come out of the solution via A/B - or is something else needed (fractionation)?

Also, could a sparkless dc motor provide some solution agitation - would it be safe with all that ethane generation going on? Could the ethane gas be channeled safely away by using some silicone tubing above the anode, and thus allow a more conventional motor be used to provide agitation?

I want to work out the first stage, going from phenylalanine to amphetamine first, and then I will start working on the method for the amp to meth process, preferably also using electro.

By the way did anyone else see that quote on one of the kolbe threads somewhere saying that there's already crews doing it this way, anyone else think so too?
I know naaaathing.