Author Topic: Ephedrine synthesis to protect our future  (Read 3721 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

suss

  • Guest
Ephedrine synthesis to protect our future
« on: January 27, 2004, 07:17:00 AM »
Hello bees,

There are several things that make the future clandestine synthesis of meth uncertain (particularly in oz).

1(a) NOW: OTC sudo pills are becoming more and more gakked, and pills are getting harder to get without arousing suspicion.

(b) FUTURE: May become impossible to purchase sudo pills without a doctor's prescription. Or, worse still, they may come up with an alternative to sudo for use as a decongestant, so no precursors for us.

2(a) NOW: Good NP solvents are getting harder to get, with a license already required for tetra. Tetra based brake cleaner is to be phased out within 5 years. Soon will require a license to buy tolly due to it's use in explosives.

(b) FUTURE: All decent solvents impossible to get without license, with gakked pills - where do we get our sudo?


Basically what I'm trying to say is this:

If they take our red phos from matches, we'll use phos acid. If they take that, well use birch reductions, if they take that, we'll find a way. BUT, if they take sudo pills off the market, or make them prescription items, or take good solvents off the public market, we're fucked. The p2p synth is well out of reach for most people, and the chems required will be even harder to get soon.
Ephedra/Ma Huang is illegal in oz too.

So we need to synth our own sudo. There are a few posts about fermenting it, but no decent step by step instructions. Can someone who has done this, please make the data available to the rest of us in an easily followed go to whoah format? We really don't need to worry about them taking beets or yeast off the market, and this seems like the only way to go. Please help.

Seriously though, this problem is so embedded in my head, that I am avoiding the use of tetra for pill extractions, because I know that one day I will go to the auto store, and only the tetraless brake cleaners will be on the shelf. I want to be prepared, so current extraction ideas use DCM, which has a slightly more certain future than tetra :)

I realise most of you are perfectly happy extracting your pills for now, and will be going on about suss' stupid ramblings taking up valuable time. But honestly, it's not a matter of if, but a matter of when. This will happen, and maybe in the not too distant future.

Rhodium

  • Guest
One route gone, several dozen still to go
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2004, 07:58:00 AM »
If you think fermenting your own ephedrine is not your thing, maybe you should look into other methods of synthesizing methamphetamine:

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/phenylacetone.html


https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/p2p-meth.html




jemma_jamerson

  • Guest
your right
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2004, 08:41:00 PM »
oz bees know this deep down.

suss i suggest UTFSE with organikum as the user name with l-pac or bio synth dont bee affraid, its a good thing in a way, fuck the chemist  :)

Post 401069

(Organikum: "The most effective way to L-PAC", Serious Chemistry)



spectralshift

  • Guest
'Prepn by reducing the condensation product of
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2004, 07:10:00 AM »
'Prepn by reducing the condensation product of benzyl methyl ketone and methylamine: A. Ogata, J. Pharm. Soc. Japan 451, 751 (1919)'
(methamphetamine)


The information is there, and is simple, functional and likely to produce sucess if some effort is put in... it just hasn't been condensed in to a encouraging-to-newbee/ popularised form.

A route to benzaldehyde (toluene feedstock)
A route to acetaldehyde* (ethanol, methylated spirits, vodka even feedstock)

You need to learn a few things about fermentation, such as airation, temperature, time.

Add toluene to the brew post-brew to extract the L-PAC

reductive amination using aluminium and mercury compund (chloride).

make your own way with it, I guess a writeup will pop up at some point, its not too important though.

chilly_willy

  • Guest
humf..
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2004, 05:42:00 PM »
Seems as though you are getting a little too comfortable in your RP/I/E, birch speed world.  Dont get so paranoid about loosing the few "precious" chems you need for your synth.
1ab.  E started being suspicious WAYYY longer than you think.  Screw Gakk..get a better extraction method.  If they take away E..who cares..learn more chemistry and you will start to laugh at the prospect of running around town for an oz. worth of E.
2ab. Forget about all the tetra huey.  A simple Denat/IPA boil will get you your E.. They can have the tetra..
ALL your solvent worries are totally unwarranted. What are you worried about Toluene for??  Toluene has a thousand and one uses.  Industry would be mighty pissed if regulations made it tough to use.  Also..these days toluene is not the chem of choice for bomb-makers anyway.  They already took the nitric off the shelves which put a big dent in the wannabe anarchists arsenal.
3. I dont think they are going to take away RP unless people are willing to do away with those unneeded little things called matches.  Ammonia-- those farmers might get mighty pissed when all their crops start to die.

Also..P2P is not at all hard to make.  While you guys are slaving over your RP/NH3 reactions many others here have been digging around finding many OTC ways of obtaining P2P thus ensuring the total uncontrollability of amphetamines.  Making P2P is far easier than trying to synth your own E!! I say go to hell Ephedrine....learn some more chemistry and leave these archaic methods in the dust!


jemma_jamerson

  • Guest
economy wise
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2004, 05:47:00 PM »
are you suggesting that a route to l-pac is less economical than the one to p2p?

i remeber organikums post about his first trial run, for next to nothing he obtained from memory i thing 50grms of precursor.


chilly_willy

  • Guest
just..
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2004, 06:44:00 PM »
no..just trying to widen this persons horizon


Master_Alchemist

  • Guest
Unlikely Outcome
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2004, 07:03:00 PM »
Suss, you have brought up a very valid point which will threaten cooks at some time or another, but I  think you are worrying too much  ;)
Loosen up mate, It's all a game of survival of the fittest and If you put your mind to it, there will always be ways around it.
I personally pull my suzy hcl from otc tabs and that suits me fine presently, but on the otherhand I have 25 Ephedra Sinica(Ma Huang)and 5 Ephedra Nevadensis shrubs growing on my property. You say that ephedra is illegal and while your correct, so is meth hcl, so what's the difference?
In response to your non-polar solvent shortage, I reckon you are barking up all the wrong trees...why?
Coz, in 2 weeks I setup accounts with 4 different chem suppliers, 1 a major commercial outlet.
I know posess enough AR grade NP solvents & acids that will keep me going for 6 months  ;)
One thing you have to think of is the big picture.
What Willy was trying to say whas that every illicit drug precursor has numerous different applications in a number of different industries and I agree with this 100%!
Therefore I am not worried about the what if's and buts that threaten our little forbidden sanctuary of crime.  8)
Although the prospect of ferment ephedrine would be favourable, I know nothing about this transition, but I would only consider it when pills are gone and my ephedra is no more. (doubt it though, I've got shitloads of seeds!)
Which are easily imported via the internet if you look hard enough. They grow in chinese fuckin deserts for christ sake, so what does that say for their tolerance to heat and water deprivation..Does that climate sound familiar to anyone?
;D  My advice to you is to loosen up and implement some backup plans..and stop buying otc solvents(they fuck yields)
Bugz

jemma_jamerson

  • Guest
plants
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2004, 08:03:00 PM »
ozy ozy ozy  :)

mate dont those eph seeds take 2 years to mature?


suss

  • Guest
You guys are too bold
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2004, 09:23:00 PM »
Look,

What you are saying is possibly true. But some points:

1. A simple alcohol pill extraction is not enough to get ephedrine. You obviously use P2P. Have you tried extracting eph in less than the last 5 years? You are kidding yourself if you think this is true.

2. The OTC tolly ban will be emplaced within the next year or two in oz. You are already wrong. This is already happening.

3. Yes meth is illegal, so is growing ephedra. But you can completely extract ephedrine and make the meth within a week if you have the ingredients. You can then remove all evidence of its manufacture and never be caught cooking. The "window" for being caught is tiny. If you grow ephedra for however long it takes to grow, the window is huge. If you are suspected of cooking, having ephedra plants on your land is excellent circumstantial evidence.

4. Do you really think people who import ephedra seeds aren't watched, or at least noted? More good circumstantial evidence.

5. Do you really think a youngish person, starting a company and purchasing chemicals is not going to be suspicious? More good evidence.

6. Some people just don't have the resources to do what you are suggesting.

7. Some of us aren't trying to make a living by cooking. We just cook to provide ourselves and maybe our friends with a supply of good quality meth, to reduce interactions with lowlives, and to minimise neurodamage. We might cook only every few months or so. There are workarounds for all the things we've discussed, but think of a poor student, living with a few friends, in a small suburban house, trying to cook in a cupboard without his housemates knowing. This is the kind of thing some are up against, and the kind of thing that makes even NH3 reactions practically impossible. Do it somewhere else you say? Well I don't fancy being caught with every single precursor in my car at once.

8. Sorry to say it, but I bet you get caught. Though I truely hope not. Who knows, maybe swim has bought your meth off the street? I surely wish this unfortunate event on no man, yourselves included.


Look, I realise what you guys are saying and you are both right, but it really isn't that simple.

The end.

abolt

  • Guest
mate dont those eph seeds take 2 years to...
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2004, 09:45:00 PM »
mate dont those eph seeds take 2 years to mature?

4 years for decent yields.

Mister_Alchemist, how much ephedrine do you expect to extract from 30 plants?


biotechdude

  • Guest
L-PAC then where?
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2004, 01:53:00 AM »
Routes to L-PAC seem straight forward (to me anyway); the main hurdles being the benzaldehyde and/or acetaldehyde.

So when one has L-PAC; what next?  Its clear its a reductive amination...but is there any writeups or experimental protocol to follow?

Master_Alchemist

  • Guest
You say bold, I say creative
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2004, 03:44:00 AM »
So we meet again my friend  :)
First of all what I said is more than a possibility.
Im not sure how many of your points are directed at me but I'll have a crack anyway.

1. You are dead right, a simple alcohol pill extraction is not enough to get (Pseudo)Ephedrine. I assume(hope)you are referring to pulling Suzy Hcl? What makes you think that I would use P2P? I dont! Do you honestly think I havn't tried to extract Suzy from pills in the last 5 years? And to be perfectly honest I am not exactly sure who is kidding themselves! If I were to extract suzy I am confident that I would be able to obtain a sufficient yield.

2.Now that you mention OTC Toluene, that may be true I am not sure. My guess is that too many teenagers have asked the counter chick for 2x 20L drums!
Im sure if you give a detailed reason as to why you want 20L of Tolly, the hardware store manager will happily take your $100. Or use Xylene I hear it works just as well, if not better  :)
3.Hehe, when the constabulary kick down your door at 3am, then you will realise  how tiny your window of oppurtunity is to destroy evidence. A flask, a condensor and 10mg of residue in your kitchen is all the cops need to make you bubbas jail bitch. May not be commercial drug trafficking and It may not get you 20yrs, but youll remember Bubba for the rest of your life!
4. Do you really think people who import Ephedra seeds use their real name or real mailing address?
5. You are right there, but It is all about perception and tact. Dont talk 'young' even if you are, pretend your company has been thriving for 2 years and ask them for a quote so as you can compare their prices with your 'regular' supplier. For gods sake I've arranged an account via email claiming I am a norwegian Forensic scientist who is bound to a wheelchair after I was involved in a tragic motorcycle accident. As a result, My apprentice can pickup all the solvents/acids/reagents, coz he is my 'SON'...lmao!!
I get fuckin special discounts for christ's sake coz they pity me! Moral of Story: Use your imagination!
6&7. Mate there was a time when I didnt have shit either, so I know how you feel. But I thought one day, no use sittin around feelin sorry for myself and I decided to do something about my economic situation. I think the rumour is that I held up a jewellery store, but details are irrelavant...!
The main thing is that I built a ladder and from there I slowly climbed it, trying hard not to fall off!  :)
8.Well Suss that sounds like a wager to me!  ;)
Mate, anything can happen, so I expect do fall down sometime or another.
I have 4 people involved in my network and I trust every one of em with my life & vice versa. Besides when the pigs come a knockin, Acetone Peroxide makes everything better  ;)
Dont take what I've said the wrong way coz their was never any malice intended from the beginning  :P
I reckon you still have a few years to work things out Suss, so when you do, you will realise that it is 'that simple'
Later man best of luck
Edit For Abolt: Not a great deal at all but that does not bother me  ;)
I am performing alkaloid content tests at 3 month intervals with both species of Ephedra, so I can know how much ephedrine is in immature plants and so forth. And believe me there aint much at all!  :)  Currently preparing the soil on a big plot at my farm. Going to plant a few hundred Ephedra Sinica and get em started. Nevadensis has virtually no alkaloid content, even when mature  :(  Kinda knew that though, but got em for some diversity!
I'll keep everyone posted anyhow!