New Straight to E -- a novel extraction tech.

[platcat]

from the visuals swip felt it had completed.Hit phases at the right temps,slight swirls of whitish smoke,minor PI3 formation,rained HI,only thing was a slight porosity of the balloon on the condensor.very slight.rxn ended at the 8 hour mark and only budged a short time with a temp increase and a squirt of h2o.swip recovered 4/5 of the starting mbrp so a incomplete rxn seems to be indicated.
 swip had a can of tetra sitting there but wanted to do it first by the write up.pfed yeild was resonable at 80% with some xtails visable in PM still.MEK showed a pink drip so swip ensured a thorough rinse.post rxn was worked up as usual,NP washes were piss yellow.No excess iodine was noticed unreacted.on evap no PEG was noticed at all.resulting pfed was recrystalized in iso.some clouds of mcc were liberated,very minor.no dought some snuck thru the charmin.iso came back clear with no show of the pink which has been haunting swip.Swip has some fresh mbrp and will procede to repeat it.And no swip is not Greg Graffin of BAD RELIGION, although it would be nice.....PC

[wareami]

VE: Ibee's always been a little squeemish about running freebase pfed mainly due to his inability to obtain 100% of the available feedstock from the NP.
Nonetheless, your final step at reaching pristeen clean feed explains why it's so.
Ibee's experience with the known gaaks hinted at the fact that some of the more microscopic polymers may be present and that was why Ibee suggested the tetra rinse of the pfed hcl just prior to running. As a safeguard....more or less.
Getting beyond the Poo-Tang is a giant leap for BeeKind but they've managed to squeeze several curveballz in one little blisterpack as of late. If just one of "fuckabee in the end" measures follows through into rxn, it reeks havoc on the $$$, Time, and energy invested.
Stopping those crafty pricks dead in thare tracks spells temporary victory until they engineer a new relief pitcher!
Staying one step ahead while SWIMming is damn near impossible unless yer Jchrist. Keeping one's head above water is the best we can expect.
Your research and development is helping bees do just that!
Keep UP the good work!
PC: Your description of the candidates present at the post-bubblebath poolparty indicates to the Kidz that maybe a red innerTUBE found taped to side of the Red/Black can might come in handy as a life saver next time before jumping into the Pool!
Peace of the _REaction
Have FUN-Bee SAFE

[ici_rhi]

SwiRhi is one of those being away from lab for a while, and just got back online..While traveling a bit past home, being meth country, popped into store to find the "sacred" cold meds, the one containing only the 2 inactives, 60mg suzE and 4mg antihist..only 48 of these, then stumbled onto 48 same actives but 5 inactives,including POV, no MCC or hydro methylcel.....
plan seems to lean toward doing New STE on 48 with POV, then BRAKE-ware those..."sacred" 48-- new STE and should be good to go...React together..Yes small batch but would like to be GOOD...Love to venture to FB suzE but will stick to HCI this run...RP/I2 and clean the crap outa MBRP...
Any thoughts as to separating pill batches???

[wareami]

Ibee finds it's always better to bee safe than Gaaked UP!
If one batch of 48 contains poo-tang and the other doesn't, why risk contaminating the whole lot.
But since SWII_R is doing the STE, poo-tang should fall by the wayside and wouldn't bee a concern.
Your call on mixing or running both 48ct batches separate.
Peace of the _REaction
Have FUN-Bee SAFE

[Castortrip]

SWICS reacted didnt notica any polyethelyne glycol in the postr rxn, but there was a slight ting of pink BEWARE THE GAKK! oh wait, that was excess HCL.  since the rp was grainy and not all lumpy it was safe to assume the pseudo was clean and the reaction fluid was not terrably yellow. but a/b'd STE FB pseudo is just wonderful w/ it's fluffy pearly white crystals gleaming at you, if you ask me, keep it freebase. STE works wonderfully. especially the crystals that didnt pour into the funnel with the rest and are stuck the the bottom of the flask, those are so perty  but you'd be suprised what an a/b removes, yes even from STE pseudo HCL. atleast in my experience.it removed about 1 5th a cm of solids under the extracted NP layer. just something to think about  

[ballsdeep]

I'm sure that there are lots of bees who have used STE-extracted p-fed in their rxn's.
Anybody have any comments about their post-rxn results using STE'd p-fed? Any POV, PEG, or Poo-Tang I or II, etc?

Castortrip: What final yeilds of p-fed have you gotten after doing the STE followed with an A/B?
Does the A/B seem to remove/lose any p-fed, or does it just get rid of any remaining gakks?

[geezmeister]

Saying that Platcat suffered an incomplete reaction begs the question. The question we want to answer is why was the reaction incomplete?

It could have been inadequate red, dirty red, or red that coated during the reaction by a contaminant. We have to trust to Platcat's opinion of how good his red was to start with, and he's not new at this. His symptoms could be explained by povidone, as heavy povidone contamination can coat the red and impair the recycling of I2 to HI causing the reaction to only partially complete. The bright yellow? Can't say its all iodine, as incomplete reactions will have yellow honey, but not necessarily bright piss-yellow honey. I've seen that color many times, but haven't seen it since Placebo told us about the turps cure. The Straight to E does not necessarily address povidone...and I think that is a logical culprit in Platcat's situation.  Platcat may have extracted from some pills with povidone as a foilant rather than as a binder or glue, and his assessment of povidone as a possible source of his incomplete reaction is a good one.

Or his red might be dirtier or more used up than he thought, since he was reacting mbrp-- which will vary in quality.

I am looking forward to Scottydog's results with the stuff he reacted. I think Wareami's observation about a tetra wash is an excellent one. With the variety of foilants in the mix, its really hard to expect to be able to beat evry formulation with a single process. Knowing which ingredients dictate which approach will probably continue to be a vital tool in the extractomaniac's bag of tricks.

I look forward to more yield and purity reports...surely more of you have some results to share with us by now. I guess I'll go hunt down that damn phos fairy and unlock the lab again and find out for myself....I've already concluded the being clean and sober stuff isn't what its cracked up to be...

[platcat]

swip had tried the easy pulls on the favorite ones with the minimum inactives.very current by the exp dates I may add.and the damn pink shown thru right away.all the boxes with a 2 prefix and late 2004 and above exp date seem to be involved.(Here anyway)so beeware,aint so easy no more/if you can stock up,do so and look at the dates and lot prefixes.the ones with a 1 prefix pulled ok.this may not bee complete info,swip just found out himself.of course it is not listed.  PC

[platcat]

swip left out fact that he had used thiosulfate on the post rxn fluid.a small xtail like 3mm.he is ready to do a nano with the reclaimed pfed and some new mbrp so stay tuned!!!.PC

[wareami]

What PC describes is what has been witnessed by the Kidz!
There is the Poo-Tang and a Pink, or more precisely, a Peach color inactive included. Ibee named it PeachFuzz cause the fucking pigs probably forced it's introduction without including it in the inactive list of ingredients.
Exposing poo-tang seems to be easy enough using IDEAJuice and has distinctly different property characteristics than the other peachfuzz.
Jubilation was felt when the Poo-Tang was exposed and removed from the picture during the IDEA wash, but gloom and doom soon followed when  peachfuzz was found to be present in the alky extracted pfed solution after the IDEA wash.
More will bee revealed...
Which may bee good or bad depending on which side you are on.
Peace of the _REaction
Have FUN-Bee SAFE

[cthulhujr]

Firstly...VE...nice job...to achieve even similar results swim required a long complex messy ritual.  Once again you have brought order to the chaotic world of pill extracting.

secondly...in swims opinion...cleaning the pfed to perfection is likely possible...but impractical.  swim has routinely dreamed of running way dirtier pfed than this extraction provides. simply sick of screwing with pill extractions, just dry a/b and nothing else.  boiling the reaction long and wet, and distilling. yields 45-50%. maybe not any 75-80%, but alot less pulling out of hair over pill troubles or fighting gakky a/b's.
  Pill grinding is a dying art, the end will eventually arrive for most. so swim isn't going to sweat over it anymore, he never had much luck anyways.

VE, thanks for the nice post, you're the undefeated extracting champ.

[platcat]

what ever it is swip had some sucess a while back using pfed recovered from a similar failed rxn.washed in MEK,tone,and recrystalized in iso and crashed in xylene.it produced some nice honey,so swip is not sure if the failed  rxn had cleaned it or if his steps on the recovered precursor cleaned it.there was no pink showing in any of those mother liquers, just minor clouds of MCC.swip recovered 70% from that one.hope this helps and does not add to the confusion.PC

[geezmeister]

I can agree with Cthulhujr, at least at the scale SWIG tends to work at. SWIG has always been happy to take lower percentage yields of purer pseudo and react those, than take chances with higher yields from the pills which contain gakks which cut into his final yields or worse yet, contaminate the product.

At a larger scale it is difficult to resist higher yields from the pillstock, but at a once ounce scale and a cost per gram OTC of pseudo of around $2.50 a gram, being tight on the extraction end can easily cost you more money if it costs you final yield. How much is the time it takes to clean it worth?

That is one of the great advantages of the waterless a/b method when you become accustomed to it. The yield may not be stellar, but the precursor is clean.

SWIG understands you completely, Cthulhujr....and agrees with you-- at least at his usual scale of operation.

[Castortrip]

SWIC got ~70% after A/B but like it's being said u know.. even if the yields were 50% it's still defanitly worth it for the cleaner product unless it's a large scale reduction

[Castortrip]

also u know SWICS teqnieues arent the greatest. And heating that solution to 105c. is risky if your just going to do an A/B afterwords. 85c. then cool works good. then u knwo you wont get all the gak but the A/B snatches it up, it did on wally world 60s for SWIC, with decent yields, but great product, well for SWIM it was like this, heating to 105 burnt the pseudo alittle.. heating then cooling, they crash out in the freezer w/e, then  more heat so it filters good, and a mek wash then an a/b still cleaned *alittle* gunk, but VE knows wtf he is doing. no doubt, and his method is brilliant. it's just...SWIC just has to do things his own way sometimes. thru trial&error, that's how we learn shit aint it?  
Castor

[VideoEditor]

Just curious why you feel 105c is any more dangerous than 85c. Ignition at either temperature is gonna suck really bad. Your assumption that yeild and cleanliness will suffer by not running up to 105c is correct. 105c also makes sure that traces of water have been evaporated.

-VE

[Glacial_Refluxer]

At a certain point, one of the unwanted ingredients will
start crashing out with your pretty looking pseudo
crystals.

The white stuff that looks like chewed up paper pulp is not
pseudo.


Swim had some sucess by bringing to a light boil [temp
unknown] untill the alcohol smell was replaced with the
xylene smell, then removed from heat. Most of the pseudo
crashed out first and was filtered before that other stuff
started forming but their are to many mechanical losses
involved and the yeild was 3.3g out of 4.8g so swim suggest
sticking with the 105`c as stated.

[ici_rhi]

Thanks Ware, others...SwiI_R delayed till am on return to lab and main concern is POV being in one 48 box..not using GUPS, one wouldn't soak so the inclination is still to do Tetra wash on prepared psusE prior to reacting...best pills found in couple of years so SwiI_R wants a good outcome...plan to cook as long as possible but have to do without condenser....Any other thoughts on POV using exact STE?
rhi

[ballsdeep]

Geez: That is one of the great advantages of the waterless a/b method when you become accustomed to it. The yield may not be stellar, but the precursor is clean.

Are you saying that a waterless A/B performed after the STE gets rid of the PooTang I, II, and Pinkfuzz gakks?
If so, 70% isn't bad at all if the p-fed is totally clean.

If not, will Geez' xylene pseudo precep technique get rid of these gakks? It gets rid of PooTang I, but has anybody tried the XPPT on the other 2 gakks?

[urushibara]

Where I live, although it can be gotten, toluene is a bit of a hassle (petrol depot) and vm&p naptha has to be gotten from specialists far away from me, and IPA, well, that's expensive compared with ethanol...

so, I was thinking it might be good to see how substituted solvents might work, this is what I am thinking:

50/50 dry ethanol/naptha boil, hot filter 3x
add odourless turps to extract gaks and boil off alcohol
dry acetone wash
recrystallise in ethanol

The idea of combining alcohol and naptha and an aromatic together is brilliant, it cuts out a step and means the crystals are precipitated immediately, and gaks can be spotted as well.

I will report on results after dreaming about it