Precursors for Ozzies (RP/I2/E)

[Belial]

I guess this thread has digressed somewhat, but, anyway, why even fuck with making benzaldehyde, bitter almond oil is readily available in oz.

[the_happy_chef]

belial > it is a little OT but interesting nonetheless. does the almond oil need to be distilled to get the benzaldehyde? or just proceed to next rxn step?

beez_neez > can you supply a link or reference for this rxn chain you are describing? I don't believe I've seen it before

thx  

[beez_neez]

Off topic??? You started it!

Benzaldehyde is a list II(2) chem. in oz.

Benzaldehyde is easily prepared from toluene/benzyl alcohol(utfse)

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/phenyl-2-nitropropene.html

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/phenylacetone.html

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/meth.louisfreeh.html

[the_happy_chef]

hehe beez  

it would be a nice, clean synth but it's hard to get the chems here. it's a police state, remember?  

i think RP/I2 with Ephedra powder is the way to go. extracting ephedrine from the powdered ma huang is as easy as a methanol wash and evaporation. 'swim' did it.

the resulting tarlike substance can be refluxed directly to meth in much the same manner as eph crystals can be.. see:

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/ephedra.html

the resulting hurdle is to find a reliable source for ma huang powder. i dream of planting some in my backyard

[biotechdude]

Methanol soak on ephedra - may as well bring back the vicks inhaler fable

TRUST SWIX - IT DOESN'T WORK - solvent extractions give very low shitty yields of meth - there are many other good ways to achieve smooth white alkaloid salts.  Did i hear someone whisper steam...

stick to the pills while u can...

[the_happy_chef]

The reason I'm getting sick of pills is because in my area they are always that lovely dry matrix type, usually with povidine and every other polymer you could imagine, included for good measure. In my state the pharm companies don't make pseudo, the cops do.

Granted, if you are trying to get 'purdy white crystals' from the ma huang powder, you've got your work cut out for you. But if you can accept the oily extract as an intermediate on the way to meth, I think you'll get better yields.

I'm currently investigating different solvent combos for better ephedrine yields. Stay tuned for the results. That is, if you want to know how to make piles of crystal  

[Belial]

As im sure at least one other has put it, "Shit in = Shit out" NEVER settle for an oily extract as a starting material!

In response to whomever asked about the bitter almond, i cant believe i have to clarify it, BUT of course the benz needs to be distilled out!

[the_happy_chef]

Belial, of course crystalline precursors are going to give optimum yield. Swim just completed a nano synth with 1.5gm eph in oily extract, yield was close to 55%. But there's two reasons why he's not unhappy with the results:

1. Ma huang power is very cheap, even if swim gets it imported from the usa it works out at about $7 per gram of ephedra alkaloid (not per gram of powder) - cheaper than pseudo pills

2. Extraction is easy and quick. Just a wash, filter then dry out the solvent. No dangerous solvent boiling.

..I know it's great to get 80% yield but who cares when this way is so much easier. The product is still good quality - swim still makes sure the rxn is complete so as to eliminate nasty iodine byproducts. All swim needs to do now is scale up from the nano version of this synth.

[biotechdude]

"...1.5gm eph in oily extract, yield was close to 55%..."

55% yield is (almost ubelievably) good if reacting the black crusty/shiny methanol extract (see, Swix knows..).  Post reaction, did u base and extract using a np solvent?  If so, Swix believes u may have some iodo-intermediates or just plain pseudo.  So you may have managed to pull 55% of 'powder' into the np and then pH/evap... Or was this 55% yield was of clear meth crystals?

"...even if swim gets it imported from the usa..."

GOOD LUCK...ephedra imports are banned by customs in Oz.  Do you wanna test your luck against the Feds??  U may get lower grade (max 3%) through if you plan to import in bulk for a liscensed herb business.  Under a very heavy watchful eye...

Swix is just very curious with your good results as he uses smooth snow white steam distilled alkaloid salts and has managed 50% yield (in HI/H3PO3) of clear diamonds at the end.

If you have some secrets about the plant that Swix doesn't know about; please share...cos he is very friendly with the plant and was an oz bee in the identical mind-set less than a year ago...and only wishes to help

[spectralshift]

GOOD LUCK...ephedra imports are banned by customs in Oz.

Exactly. Help him bio, but both of you should consider that the biosynth route is a much safer route legally than extraction, when pills do become unviable.
Well legally is the wrong term, but security wise, and covert wise. I'd never fuck with customs, because as soon as it's sent it's out of my control.

[the_happy_chef]

well I cant say for sure it's 55% but swit got 700mg of something, and it made swit high    lol

it was a basify, dissolve in non-pol-sol then bubbles of hcl gas. my fav method

there is one drawback to the powder I think.. swit probably gets more of the dex-amph and other less-potent variants in the mix, than would be produced from pills

swit already 'tested his luck'!    I mean if he makes fucking schedule 1 gear in his bedroom why is he going to give a shit about those brainless customs kids?

just declare it as 'vitamin c' or 'fibre supplements' etc etc and chances are they wont open it.. unless it weighs 50kg   . I think they trust packages from the states

as for low yield, maybe it was the h3po3? I trust red-P more. did u only extract once? there's so many variables dude. theoretically I think the max yield is 90%. try leaving the reflux for a full day and see what happens..

that's me for now. have a nicely fucked-up nye!  

[biotechdude]

"...well I cant say for sure it's 55% but swit got 700mg of something, and it made swit high  lol..."

Yield was constant for hypo/rp/H3PO3 methods...Gear was gently steam distilled and a/b'd and cleaned thoroughly post distillation and the 50% obtained was transparent crystal meth. 

So perhaps if Swix a/b'd his post reaction mix directly his yields would of increased, and his purity decreased.....but he would of still got 'high'.

And Swix has extracted large quantities MANY MANY times using different methods.  HOWEVER, Swix believes the main difference is the specie and origins of the plant; that dictate the balance of alkaloids present.  This inturn dictates its reducable products eg eph/pseudo = meth, other alkaloids = crap.  This also explains our differences in yield.

"...just declare it as 'vitamin c' or 'fibre supplements' etc etc and chances are they wont open it.. unless it weighs 50kg . I think they trust packages from the states..."

Swix knows Custom's procedures very well; maybe that's why he's so cautious and unwilling to go down the import path.  Furthermore, Swix would only bee interested in 50+kg's so although you may have got lucky; Swix may not. 

Chances are they won't open it; but chances are they will.  Feds aren't going to storm your residence because of 1kg of plant; they will sit tight (gathering info) for years before acting. 

Lastly, they may not open it because they are suspicious of you; it's cos some other fucker (smuggler, terrorist etc) is bringing shit in on the same flight or from the same destination that fucks you (and they search everything!!...).  So really you are not taking a chance yourself, you are taking a chance in others.

Swix doesn't want to discourage anyone an wishes everyone the best of luck.  Swix wishes shit loads of the god-blessed plant can flood our country.  But as an educated bee on imports he feels others deserve balanced information. 

P.S. @the_happy_chef - although my tone has been mother-like; i'm fuckin stoked you're going hard!! Stay happy

[spectralshift]

>>just declare it as 'vitamin c' or 'fibre supplements' etc etc and chances are they wont open it.. unless it weighs 50kg

They didn't open a security-test shipment of fake ecstacy tablets either.
Playin with fire dude, at least if you order a weight training stack you'd have a believable excuse.

Now you'll probably swap over to that, but the feds probably know you've ordered both and smell your coffee...

So the excuse available to you before is now known in fact to AFP to bee a blatent lie.

[the_happy_chef]

Swim did some more cooks over the holidays. And one 'oh so beautiful' extraction. Have you tried the brand that 'soldiers on' (non-dry matrix)?? Here it is:

1. crush pills into fine powder
2. wash with 2x vol of ethanol (metho), collect wash
3. wash with 2x vol of ethanol (metho), collect wash
4. combine washes and dry to form crystals
5. wash crystals in acetone twice, discard washes
6. dry crystals until acetone smell is gone

This gives about 1.5gm of shiny eph crystals (and a bit of codeine) plus a pile of paracetamol if you keep the acetone washes and evaporate them (48 tab pack).

The non-actives included only a starch binder that fell out of the ethanol wash and a bit of waxy stuff that came through with the acetone.

Swim is so totally turned-off the time-release formulas now. All the gakk makes him think it's just not worth it. I have a question though.. would codiene interfere with the RP/I2 reaction in any way, or produce nasty byproducts?

Also, is it true that eph is degraded under sunlight?

[suss]

This seems like too simple an extraction for any modern pill. (not from swims experience, just what he has read on the hive). Can any other oz bees confirm that this extraction is suitable? BTW, couldn't the codeine be extracted by basing and dissolving the eph in non-polar solvent. As far as swim knows, codeine is not soluble in NP solvents under basic conditions. Can anyone confirm? Does anyone know if an acetone soak (then discard the acetone) is OK for removal of paracetamol? If so, why all the recent talk about using cold water? Seems a waste, having to filter cold water and stuff, when acetone can be used. Swim recalls a post about using acetone to remove paracetamol, but seems to recall the poster being flamed.

[spectralshift]

Each to his own.

I'm sure it's still stacked with paracetamol, anything above r.t. and acetone starts dissolving a visible amount of pfed.
I think it's a horrid solvent choice to remove paracetamol while trying to leave pfed behind.

cold/10c water pulls will get all the pfed, and leave much of the paracetamol behind.
When the water is evapped. the cold water pulls are repeated to remove all of it...the pfed that is-with the paracetamol to dispose of.

paracetamols good, cause it weighs half a gram of an easy gak per pill.

[the_happy_chef]

there is so much variation between brands it's not funny. swim must have tried every brand available in oz, and there doesn't seem to be any hard-and-fast rules regarding presence of pill binders
true there is probably some para left, but it's of no great concern since swim only needs to reflux 1.7gm of material for his nano as opposed to 25gm if the para was still there (unless para hinders the rxn?)
btw does codeine taste salty? there was a separation during evap of the acetone and the crystals at the top tasted salty
also I heard that pure acetone will not dissolve eph at all but if you are correct then this is good info to have.. are you sure its not just when the acetone is 'wet'?
maybe next time cold water is the way to go. as long as the starch is removed thoroughly with the alcohol first. or what if swim cooled the acetone in the fridge?
anyway once swim has done the cook he will let you know about yield & bioassay, etc.

[Belial]

An A/B will completely remove paracetamol. Codeine will come through an A/B.

[spectralshift]

Your a damn nice bee THC.

Yup I'm quite certain on the eph soly in tone. But if it's at the start of a procedure the tone wash, less will dissolve (but still some).
To demonstrate this pour a boiling wash thru a filter, you'll see fragments of crystal when you look at the filter paper from various angles.

when convinced bring the wash back up to boiling and throw it all back in the main pot as this is unacceptable and was only an experiment.  


actually now im fucken confused, the merck only has an entry for paracetamol for the freebase, ill just paste all of it so you can look through it too:

Monograph number:  Title: Acetaminophen. CAS Registry number: [103-90- CAS name(s): N- (4-Hydroxyphenyl)acetamide; 4prime-hydroxyacetanilide Additional name(s): p- hydroxyacetanilide; p- acetamido phenol; p- acetaminophenol; p- acetylaminophenol; N- acetyl- p- aminophenol; paracetamol Trade name(s): Acamol (Teva) ; Acetalgine (Streuli) ; Alpiny (SS Pharm.) ; Anaflon (SKB) ; Anhiba (Hokuriku) ; Apamide (Bayer) ; Ben-u-ron (Bene-Arzneimittel) ; Calpol (Warner-Lambert) ; Captin (Krewel) ; Dafalgan (UPSA) ; Datril (Bristol-Myers Squibb) ; Dirox (Sanofi Winthrop) ; Disprol (Reckitt and Colman) ; Doliprane (RPR) ; Dolprone (Bottu) ; Enelfa (Dolorgiet) ; Feb rilex (Raven) ; Gelocatil (Gelos) ; Hedex (SKB) ; Momentum (Much) ; Ortensan (Cimex) ; Pacemol (Gemballa) ; Panadol (SKB) ; Pana leve (Pinewood) ; Panasorb (SKB) ; Panodil (SKB) ; Paraspen (Fisons) ; Pasolind N (Stada) ; Salzone (Wallace) ; Tabalgin (Berk) ; Tapar (Parke, Davis) ; Tempra (Mead Johnson) ; Tylenol (McNeil) ; Valadol (Bristol-Myers Squibb) Molecular formula: C 8 H 9 NO 2 Molecular weight: Percent Composition: C 63.56%, H 6.00%, N 9.27%, O Literature references: Prepn from p- nitrophenol: Morse, Ber. 11, 232 (1878); Tingle, Williams, Am. Chem. J. 37, 63 (1907); from p- aminophenol: Lumiegravere et al., Bull. Soc. Chim. France [3] 33, 785 (1905); Fierz-David, Kuster, Helv. Chim. Acta 22, 94 (1939); Wilbert, De Angelis, U.S. pat. 2,998,450 (1961 to Warner-Lambert); Bergmann, Ger. pat. 453,577; Chem. Zentr. 1928, I, 2663; Frdl. 16, 238; from p- hydroxyaceto phenone hydrazone: Pearson et al., J. Am. Chem. Soc. 75, 5907 (1953). Toxicity data: G. A. Starmer et al., Toxicol. Appl. Pharmacol. 19, 20 (1971); D. C. Dahlin, S. D. Nelson, J. Med. Chem. 25, 885 (1982). Evalu ation of renal effects: D. P. Sandler et al., N. Engl. J. Med. 320, 1238 (1989). Comprehensive description: J. E. Fairbrother, Anal . Profiles Drug Subs . 3, 1-109 (1974). Review of pharmacology: B. Ameer, D. J. Greenblatt, Ann. Int. Med. 87, 202-209 (1977). Review of acetaminophen-indu ced hepato toxicity: J. A. Hinson, Rev. Biochem. Toxicol. 2, 103-129 (1980); idem, Life Sci. 29, 107-116 (1981); and proposed protective agents: M. Davis, Sem. Liver Dis. 6, 138-147 (1986). For proposed toxic metabolite see Acet imidoquinone. Properties:  Large monoclinic prisms from water, mp 169-170.5degrees . d 4 21 1.293 . uv max (ethanol): 250 nm (epsi 13800) . Very slightly sol in cold water, considerably more sol in hot water. Sol in methanol, ethanol, dimethylformamide, ethylene dichloride, acetone, ethyl acetate. Slightly sol in ether. Practically insol in petr ether, pentane, benzene. LD 50 in mice ( mg/kg ): 338 orally (Starmer), 500 i.p. (Dahlin, Nelson) . Density: d 4 21 Melting Point: 169-170.5 UV Maxima:   USE: Manuf azo dyes, photographic chemicals.  THERAP CAT: Analgesic; antipyretic.

[Belial]

>actually now im fucken confused, the merck only has an >entry for paracetamol for the freebase, ill just paste >all of it so you can look through it too

Thats because paracetamol is not an alkaloid and doesnt exist as a freebase or salt, its rather like YHWH, it is what it is.