Precursors for Ozzies (RP/I2/E)

[spectralshift]

oh okay, thanks for the info, it was just i was sure i read it on medications as a hydrochloride salt, but i must bee mistaken.

That makes things easier, and yeah the A/B sounds perfect.

YHWH, what's that?

[suss]

Well, if acetone is dissolving too much pfed, what about MEK? Pfed is insoluble in MEK, but one would guess that paracetamol is not, as it seems to have similar properties to acetone. Swim is happy to go buy some panadol to see if this is true if you guys think it may work. BTW, before you start complaining that MEK is too hard to get, go to your hardware store and check out some CLEAR PVC priming fluid (will be beside the PVC pipe cement). It says "contains methyl ethyl ketone, 1000ml/l". Nice and easy to get, even for Oz bees, not like fucking VM&P

BTW, para will be removed by the tetra trap or straight to e right?

[the_happy_chef]

Thanks Spectral  

Suss, I guess MEK is worth a shot. But it might not dissolve para..

The thing I like about acetone is that it can do nifty things like dissolving waxes and breaking down polymers. But if another solvent is more suitable swim would be happy to use it.

The drawback is that it costs $18 a litre

[spectralshift]

BTW, para will be removed by the tetra trap or straight to e right?

Tetratrap yes, on the basis that it is a A/B as Belail prescribes, but filter the decanting as there won't bee enough water.. straight to E may not work on anything in Auz man.


Hey thanks for the tip on mek, i don't mind that you were a rude bastard, first class info.  

Hey laquer thinner by them is a bloody killa fb crystallisation solvent man, you get long shards...but wash the LT with water before you use it, killed yields ones leaving the propanol or whatever oh is in it in 10%. the cunt.


Fuck naptha. Get enamel paint thinner. I think its enamel i forget (im pissed lol) the digging one thats hydrocarbon based, its naptha like. but dont use it as prescribed because u can never bee sure...trust me man us bees dont even know what vm&p naptha is, if it works as stated its secondary to pure luck.
us bees have it exponentially easier man, they REQUIRE a innactives list to give you a clean that will work...doesnt that crack you the fuck up?

Actually I remember me and Ware or gees had an argument about which was best, ware said A/B, I said water extraction. (paracetamol)

don't say i never point out when im wrong ware  

[spectralshift]

'The drawback is that it costs $18 a litre '

Whats that THC, acetone?

I agree with that, acetone is a powerful solvent.
The best of it's kind. We need a post by rhodium but hez busy the bastard, with the more advanced things i bet. Rh we need you to explain to us how solvents like acetone and MEK dissolve different things....i bet your not smart enough.( )


how acetone became the biggest puller of them all to only a crystal clean up i do not know...


you guys know how to get DCM right? if not ill do0 everything but buy it for you myself.

[the_happy_chef]

lol "propanol.. the cunt" haha  

the only DCM I've seen is paint stripper, but it's mixed with other stuff to make it a thick liquid

where do u get it?? isn't tetra better?

[suss]

THC, spec,

Swim can say from experience, though not with extracting sudo, but other hobbies that require solvents, that MEK "should" remove waxes and other shit better than acetone. This stuff is one hell of a solvent. It will dissolve most plastics (so swim would figure waxes and binders too). You can put a peice of PVC pipe in a beaker of it and it will completely dissolve. Really tuff stuff. Swim will see if it dissolves panadol soon. Don't forget that this almighty solvent is the last step of the str8 to e extraction procedure, and if you read that thread, you will find a post somewhere saying why it is better than acetone for that application. Besides, a MEK boil before an extraction is probably a nice pre cleaning step

Spec, thanx for the info on the thinners. Swim had suspected these would work after looking at the CAS numbers some time ago, but was unable to get someone to confirm. You are right, that lacquer thinner, or was it the acrylic thinner, can't remember, contains a lovely mix of toluene and xylene, and the enamel thinner is indeed an aromatic naptha. Cheers dude.

[obusted2]

[kris_1108]

suggested translation of the obusted2 post..

"Hi guys.
I see that you are all discussing various solvents and pseudo extraction methods. I personally use and recommend "Mr Cleans' Complete Birch." It will save the hassles of messing around with matchbox strikers, and the dissapointment of yielding 50-70%.

[the_happy_chef]

Hahaha        What a hoot! This is much more fun than my chem labs at uni ever were.

Birch is the 'Nazi' method, right? Sure it might give a great yield, but as I'm sure many people have said in the past.. finding anhydrous ammonia is harder than taking apart an omelette and turning it into eggs again!

[spectralshift]

lol "propanol.. the cunt" haha

the only DCM I've seen is paint stripper, but it's mixed with other stuff to make it a thick liquid

where do u get it?? isn't tetra better?


hehe.

That's right, it's yellow tin paint stripper.
Very easy to distill, look in the chemicals and equip forum.

But don't distill it out of the can, find an erlenmier shaped ceramic vessel, grab some teflon tape while your at it, you'll find it so useful for making air tight seals. for tube-to-hole and also for threads of screw on lids..all sorts of stuff, real cheap too. A ten pak of rolls is on special at the moment for 4.50 and bunnniez!  
copper tubing sektion man!

recycle DCM, and acetone, there's no excuse for not doing it really. Ice + a one hole stopper + appropriate tubing + a ceramic flask to fit the stopper + a bucket for ice +teflon tape == ghetto solvent distillation/recycler == rarely need to ever re-stock.

The thin HDPE + teflon tape works great and no need to drill a larger hole in a store bought stopper. you can have 500ml of DCM in a lazy evening no worries.

Tetra is much stronger yep! But DCM is still a killa, and it has many solvent uses.


suss: no worries, thanks for the MEK info, it sounds like a killer!

Besides, a MEK boil before an extraction is probably a nice pre cleaning step

Hell yeah! with all the plastics and glues etc.

With the laquer thinner, it's a good slow recrystallisation solvent for fb because the MEK actually slows down the evaporation rate, well the combination seems to.

yeah swim couldnt find the acrylic finner, so he got the LT.
i think your right its the acrylic thinner that has toluene and a bit of xylene and something else i think.

[suss]

Spec,

Some quickies if you don't mind

1) How are you proposing that the DCM should be used for pill extraction? Are you suggesting it be used in place of tetra in the tetra trap, or pre boils/soaks, or what?

2) Are you suggesting to use HDPE tubing for these distillations? (Sorry, kinda confused from your last post, you mention tubing, but then seem to call it HDPE, just verifying)

3) You mentioned earlier somewhere that the ste extraction would not work on practially any aussie pill. Does this mean that aussie pills are even harder to extract than US pills?

Thanx spec. you've been a big help.

[suss]

Spec,

Swim has been following, with great interest he might add, your posts in the tetra trap (and others) thread. You have made some interesting points lately. Swim is curious to know what you would call the "ultimate/universal" extraction procedure (ie what do you use). Obviously you may wish to keep this secret, and swim totally understands if you do.

Swim has often wondered why no one has succesfully used dilute acid/base soaks and stuff. Some say that this activates gakks, but surely there is a way of getting a gakk away from the sudo, we just haven't found it yet.

Swim feels that current pill extraction techniques use defensive as opposed to offensive techniques. We try to prevent gakks from being "activated" and try to extract the sudo around them. We live in fear of so called "gakk attacks". We avoid using alcohol and water to remove sudo, which could give much higher yeilds, because of fear of gakk attacks, so we grind our pills and use NP solvents that don't dissolve the pill mass, and get low yeilds.

Swim says "fuck that". Lets find a way of obliterating the gakks, not avoiding them. Lets find a way of dissolving/attracting/distilling/nuking/whatever the gakks, even once "activated". He is sure there is a way, though clearly not an easy way. Surely, with the wonderful solvents available to us these days we can find a way!

[the_happy_chef]

I feel ya brother.. there must be a better way to defeat gakk attakk. I'm gonna shrink myself down then strap on the VR module and my ion beam rocket and personally shoot the gakks down next time  

But seriously, I've heard that solvent boils are the best method of all. The problem is they are so damn dangerous. If you are brave enough then a few non-polar solvent boils would probably cut through just about any gakk out there.

Swim isn't going there until he has more real lab gear. The ghetto stuff won't cut it for this level of sophistication

[suss]

Swim thinks he has it. He doesn't know why he didn't think of this before! He was looking at the options for removing para: cold water, acetone and maybe MEK. Cold water - OK, but will dissolve some sudo, so will acetone. MEK might work, but have had no time to test. So he began thinking, and here is what he came up with:

You have just tetra trapped your sudo, and the sudo freebase is locked in the NP solvent of your choice like tolly, xylene, naptha, etc. Technically, the para should not be in the NP, but there is so much in the pills that some may be in suspension. So what can you do?? WELL, what about washing the NP (after decanting from the tetra soaked pill mass) with basified (Na carbonate) water. Simple!! The para is soluble in the water, but the sudo is in freebase form and will stay in the NP provided the water is basified. Then decant/sep funnel the NP from the water and gas/evaporate/chill/whatever method you normally use. Can someone tell me why this won't work?? Take that denaturant cunts!

[SHORTY]

Just like the one that is carried out after the HI rxn. 

However, it is not necessary to use basified water.  If you do then you might end up with alot of salt when you acidify.

Once the pseudo is in the np its not gonna leave until you add acid. Just make sure you use dh20.
 
You may also want to alternate the washes from cold to hot.

[suss]

Shorty,

Why does geez say this in the post reaction workup:

"Cautions in washing.   You can wash with water alone. Conventional wisdom is to never let the ph of the wash water fall below pH 9 or 10 while doing this, as you supposedly start losing product. Geez thinks this is nonsense, but never tosses out his rinse water until he finishes up and determines he did not, in fact, throw the baby out with the wash water. And he has done an A/B extraction of the rinse water alone and recovered more than a gram of meth from it (one ounce reaction). This says you can in fact wash out some of the goodies. So don't toss the wash water until you are through. Note that the use of NaOH solution wash will avoid the problem with the pH of the water falling, will rid the mix of NaOH residues and excess sodium ions, and make the washes more complete."

Can you clarify? Have you found this to be untrue? I hope you are right, cause it means one less step. Your advice is much appeciated!

BTW, don't forget we are potentially trying to dissolve "reasonable" quantities of paracetamol here, so the water volumes involved may be quite large, even for a smallish 10g extraction. (10g of sudo from these pills will also need the removal of ~160g of paracetamol as there is 0.5g of para in each 30mg sudo pill) Obviously there wouldn't be this much para in the NP, but there could still easily be a couple of grams swim would imagine.

Maybe the answer is a high volume basic wash to remove para, followed by a small volume distilled water wash to remove sodium ions.

Cheers.

[LoRE]

try going to a paint supplies and asking for methylene cloride i bought 20 litres today no problem it removes hardend paint  DCM is just another name for it

[SHORTY]

Never done an a/b on the rinse water.  But as long as you don't throw it out then it won't bee lost.  Why don't you check the ph of each wash and see how far it drops.

I would experiment on a small amount and see what the yeild is.  If it is really bad then i would a/b the rinse water to see if its in there.  If not then, it must still bee in the pill mass.

I wash my meth np with dh20 and usually do at least 3 washes but on average i will do 5.  I don't think i am losing any yeild cause the ph after the washes is never less than 10 but like i said i have never done an a/b on the rinse water so i can't say for sure.

Just give it a try and keep notes on the results for future reference.  I wish i would have kept notes on all my past experiments.

[geezmeister]

Washing the nonpolar meth-laden solvent with a NaOH solution helps clean the solvent of sodium ions quickly, and is of great help if you over-based the reaction fluid or added NaOH dry. Both seem to load up the solvent with sodium ions. Water washes will feel slick and oily, even to a rubber-gloved hand. It often takes many water washes before they no longer have that feel. oNE WASH with a solution of NaOH will remove the "slick" from the non-polar, and a warm water wash followed by a cool water wash will usually be all the washes needed. The reason for washing with NaOH solution is not so much to prevent losses of meth to the water washes as it is to remove sodium ions from the nonpolar to limit salt production. Finding meth in the rinse water is more the exception than the rule; it does happen on occasion, at least to me. The value of the occasional half gram to gram of meth is worth taking the time to save the water washes until the yield from a reaction is known, and the NaOH solution used to wash keeps the pH high in the wash water. I add xylene (usually some that was previously used, but washed) to the collected wash water and let it sit. I collect "last corners" such as these in a quart jar as a hedge against rainy days, running out, or having nothing better to do, and is part of my "scrapping" routine.