Author Topic: health problems to blame on h3po3??PLease Read  (Read 16118 times)

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toltec

  • Guest
health problems to blame on h3po3??PLease Read
« on: January 13, 2004, 11:30:00 PM »
I started out doing birches/had great success.Annie ran out so I went the waay of matches and iodine/had great success also.h3po3 came along,I was tired of scrapin matches so did the h3po3 thing/Had very great success(after fckinup about 6 batches/I always only cooked for myself,so 5 gram cook was suffitiant.Was pulling aabout 3-3.5 grams out of 5gram cook.I was happy with it.I used charcolliter fluid and did two Warm washes after 16 hour cook then I did two water washes 6 times volume of water to fluid after basing with red devil
I pulled product by one drop of muratic per 5mil of water then evapoerated in clean microwave on plate.I then did two or three acetone washes of finished product I am always left with a glass like product that leaves no residue when melted on foil or glass.THIs is the best shit I have had since the birches,but smoother.OKay I am what you call a binge user I just can't do one or two lines. I love to just smoke and eat product until it is gone or i am to fucked up to do any more.(YEah I know must have some unresaolved isues)I first notice problemes after the third succesful batch my right hand started to swell ontop in between the knuckles and wrist then every joint in my hand swelled so I couldn't make a fist.Of course I didn't notice the pain untill The shit ran out.It was so bad that it took 40mg of oxecotten just to make it bearable.60mg got rid of the pain ,but I was to gooffy to do anything.I waited for tyhe meth to be gone from my system about thre days and I whet to three specailist.I had test run for rumathoid arthrightous/It came up negitive.I had exrays and a cunductive test for corpul tunnel==allnegetive.Blood work showed nothing.My familly doctor has com to the conclution that I must have arthritus even though the exrays don't show it.For this I get 10 mg of hydrocodone a month.The attaxck on my hand last about two months then go away.the worst of the pain is the first three weeks.I have ran this exsperiment on myself 6 times and I know that the only time my hand swells is after i idulge myself with some of honey.
THis really suck for me.for it was the only thing I really enjoyed.beside maybe SOMAS ,but I don't know how to make them.Wish to god I did.I never had any problems with honey made from annie or red/io.If anyone has exsperianced this problem or has heard of this please let me know.I would love to find a "FIX" for this.I have not as yet gone back to red/io and if I could find annie I will try that to see if I get the same results.I have a brother in law that says
that he has had simillar problems but not as seveer,only when he get honey from a certain place.I think maybe h3po3 was used ther also
Oh I found that the best way to keep h3p03 Is vacume packed
with food savor==Last me a year and a haft so far
also next time you get a cold and you are about to die with a sore throught take 5mg of hydrocodine with 800mg of advil you will have absolutley no sore thought for about 4-5 hours

barkingburro

  • Guest
perhaps it's the byproducts
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2004, 09:33:00 AM »
of using h3po3 rather than h3po3 itself. swibb has also noticed some less than desireable side effects on some but not all or even most h3po3 rxns. perhaps it is the phosphoric acid that is causing the problems? swibb was doing a lil research into side effects of h3po4 on the system and one thing he found is that phosphoric acid in large doses can build up in the form of phosphate salts within the body, causing a depletion of calcium. this is just cursory research so far, but thought it might be helpful.

biotechdude

  • Guest
It may be a warning sign that your body isn't...
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2004, 05:22:00 PM »
It may be a warning sign that your body isn't too happy about your binge meth consumption.  Eg. Ever go really hard on a particular spirit then cant stand the smell of it (let alone drink it) anymore?

Maybe this is your body's way of telling u to go easier.  That said, if u are 'healthy' perhaps it is a byproduct of the H3PO3 rxn.  Medically, perhaps one of those nasty phosphate salts lodges in your joint (causing inflamation etc) but then is degraded enough (to reduce inflammation) over a few weeks....then it is then flared up again by another meth (and resultant phosphate salt) binge. 

Now this is all speculative; and the real test will be when u take some rp/i or birch gear and see if it has the same result.  That will narrow the cause to either the H3PO3 rxn, or meth in general.  Must b a bitch to wank...


Glasya

  • Guest
Psoriatic arthritis?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2004, 11:47:00 PM »
SWIM’s friend suffers from psoriatic arthritis, blood test for both rheumatoid and osto-arthritis will both show up negative. SWIM’s friend noticed that if he did meth several times over a weekend that his arthritis would get really bad. SWIM believes that some how meth slows down the production of cortisone in the system that basically cleans out the joints, seeing as how people with psoriasis actually have skin reproducing much faster than normal and the system can’t keep up with joint repair. A really quick fix to this is to take 20mg of prednisone for 2-3 days and you should be fine. A good indication of psoriatic arthritis is unusual lines growing in your finger nails, also the fingernails will get slightly thicker.

Just a guess… SWIM’s friend suffered from this for 4 years before a specialist finally figured out what it was.

ChemoSabe

  • Guest
Learn to ReX, + Maintain Good Diet and excercise
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2004, 12:08:00 AM »
Most of the alleged "meth related health problems" that I've witnessed are mostly the results of really poor diet and lack of regular excercise (& lack of sleep).

If you are not lactose intolerant make a habit of drinking lots of milk frequently. Since it's the only food product that covers the full range of bodily needs you won't run into deficiencies of any of the food groups or vitamins and minerals that commonly plague the average meth user (who often seem clueless about maintaining a healthy food intake). It'll also help keep you hydrated but don't forget to also drink a lot of water with your meth escpecially if you ever combine it with alcohol (which also contributes to nutritional depletion in addition to dehydration).

By this point it's well  known that the one thing that you can do for yourself that is the #1 cause of longevity and general health is regular excercise so I'll make sure not to mention it.

Almost forgot. I'm sure you know this too but it seems like you need a reminder. To purify your shit of any unhealthy byproducts recrystallize it. Once you get used to reX'd shit anything but pure will turn your stomach.

Or at least it should.

PS - one final note. All health problems have their initial spark of their source within your own mind. Nothing ever just randomly comes and "gets you" and all medically related "problems" are in some way attracted (dare I say invited?) by you. Those "problems" being like flies and you like the proverbial "shit". With that stated somtimes a simple shift of attitude or the disposal of old ideas concerning a partucular seemingly unrelated matter can "magically" cure what the doctors told you was an incurable and/or genetically predispoed disease.


Osmium

  • Guest
> Medically, perhaps one of those nasty...
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2004, 01:28:00 AM »
> Medically, perhaps one of those nasty phosphate salts lodges
> in your joint (causing inflamation etc) but then is degraded
> enough (to reduce inflammation) over a few weeks....then it
> is then flared up again by another meth (and resultant
> phosphate salt) binge.

Phosphates aren't toxic. Your average soft drink contains shitloads of it.


barkingburro

  • Guest
soft drinks
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2004, 01:31:00 AM »
contain approx 160mg of phosphate salts, i.e. phosphoric acid, and are ingested and passed through the digestive system. swibb's been doing some reading that suggests that inhaled phosphate salts have a more detrimental effect on the calcium levels of the human body. i'll get some links.

spectralshift

  • Guest
calcium
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2004, 02:16:00 AM »
So if your body has low levels calcium for a very short period for whatever reason, it will instantly cause arthritic symptoms and joint pains will it?

There I was thinking that drinking milk was doing me longterm good.

Osmium

  • Guest
DO you ever have anything worthwhile to ...
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2004, 03:15:00 AM »
DO you ever have anything worthwhile to contribute, half-baked?


MnkyBoy78

  • Guest
In the distant past when SWIM would get some...
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2004, 09:17:00 AM »
In the distant past when SWIM would get some gear done via WP/I/E and the gear wasn't super clean, (Back when if it looked pretty it was good, but that thinking was disolved after the first rextalizing), SWIM's joints would ache and then SWIM's teeth would soon after start 'aching'.  After doing some research on "Phos-Jaw" and other phos related side effects it was learned that YES, calcuim is depleated in the body due to phosphates and its salts.  After popping a few high content HIGH QUALITY Calcuim pills the aching joints and bones would start to deminish.  This was done 2x a day for a few days.

*Note:  Calcuim from cheap sources isn't taken up by your body as easily.  Also, your body will only take what it needs.  Males with high calcuim intakes will eventually end up pissing a boulder.

What your teachers and parents taught you as a young'en was right:  Drink your milk, exercise and get plenty of sleep.  These few simple rules will elliminate the the shadows from jumping out at your, keep you from looking like a wacked out-skin and bones junkie and keep your body in shape incase the event of running takes place.


Rhodium

  • Guest
phosphorus vs. phosphate toxicity
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2004, 01:41:00 PM »
YES, calcuim is depleated in the body due to phosphates and its salts.

That statement makes no sense, as phosphates are salts. Where are the references to phosphate salts leaching calcium from your bones? That Phosphorus itself is toxic is well known, but your very bones consist to a great deal of calcium phosphate...


Osmium

  • Guest
> Calcuim from cheap sources isn't taken up
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2004, 02:06:00 PM »
> Calcuim from cheap sources isn't taken up by your body as easily.

Where did you hear that? From an ad for some overpriced calcium supplements?


wareami

  • Guest
Phosphate poisoning
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2004, 02:30:00 PM »
Health effects of phosphorus

Phosphorus can be found in the environment most commonly as phosphates. Phosphates are important substances in the human body, because they are a part of DNA materials and they take part in energy distribution. Phosphates can also be found commonly in plants.
Humans have changed the natural phosphate supply radically by addition of phosphate-rich manures to the soil and by the use of phosphate-containing detergents. Phosphates were also added to a number of foodstuffs, such as cheese, sausages and hams.
Too much phosphate can cause health problems, such as kidney damage and osteoporosis. Phosphate shortages can also occur. These are caused by extensive use of medicine. Too little phosphate can cause health problems.


from

http://www.tldp.com/issue/210/lettersabd.htm


Treatment of Organophosphate Exposure
Editor:

In my experience, organophosphate exposure causes more than just the neurological problems associated with anticholinesterase activity. However, the medical literature, most of the time, concentrates on that aspect of the poisoning. Particularly in chronic poisoning, the chemical dissociates within the body, resulting in metabolites of the organic component (which appear to have slightly different properties from the original at first exposure), phosphorus (which is highly toxic and corrosive in its own right) and whatever the associated radical/chemical add-on which the manufacturers add (in the Gulf War, this appears to have been fluorine which is also toxic in its own right).* With each of these component parts, there are separate sets of sypmtoms, separate storage sites, separate means of elimination. When the chemicals are stored in the body, they can be mobilized back into the bloodstream (in greater concentrations than at the time of absorption) as a result of exercise, heat, emotional excitement/distress, infection, massage, exposure to nutrients via dermal route near the storage sites, or due to displacement by other chemicals/drugs to which the person is exposed. Any detox must therefore be carried out with considerable care and caution, to avoid overwhelming the body’s coping mechanisms because of overload by chemicals re-emerging into the bloodstream.

There is precious little about chronic phosphate poisoning in modern literature; however, older books do deal with phosphorus poisoning because it was common in people manufacturing matches at that time. Body fluids containing phosphorous (particularly feces, urine, and possibly semen) will burn. Phosphorus bind strongly to mucous membranes (the cause of diarrhea and watery eyes in GWI cases). The toxic effects of chemicals can be somewhat ameliorated by ingestion of liquid bentonite several times a day (not close to meals) – it binds to phosphorous and the organics, preventing some of the caustic effects, and helping prevent re-absorption back into the system through the intestinal wall. Both phosphorus and fluorine can be bound by calcium and magnesium. A combination of calcium citrate and magnesium oxide, in approximate physiological balance, plus potassium amino acid chelate, can be taken as needed throughout the day as symptoms are noted in the muscles, head, extremities.

Materials and dosages:

Calcium Citrate and Magnesium (Nature's Life, Garden Grove, CA 92841) containing Calcium (Citrate) 1000 mg, Magnesium (Oxide) 667 mg) 2 tablets with 1 capsule of Potassium 99 mg (Nature's Way Products, 10 Mountain Springs Parkway, Springville, Utah 84663) - 99 mg Potassium amino acid chelate

In addition, nutrients may be supplemented with a good multivitamin preparation (which must contain choline and inositol, and very low – or no – iron). The best one I have turned up is "Green Multi” from Nature’s Life, Garden Grove, California 92841. Because the organophosphates diminish absorption of nutrients while increasing the requirement for them, both this preparation, plus the calcium/magnesium and potassium mentioned above, can be dissolved in the mouth – absorbing through the mucous membranes of the mouth. Individual supplements can be taken as desired – such as vitamin E (an antioxidant), vitamin A (to help protect vision), copper (which phosphorus binds to), zinc (balances copper), and B complex (balanced – the only balanced formula I know of is "Balanced B-Complex Formula" from General Nutrition Corporation, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15222). Vitamin C is also useful, although I don't recommend dissolving that in the mouth. The teeth (and bones) are under sufficient stress as it is – both from the corrosive effect of the phosphorus, and from the storage of fluoride which makes teeth and bones brittle. Dissolved Green Multi dissolves through the skin, too.

All fluorine exposure should be avoided – which may be difficult considering water supplies are being increasingly fluoridated. Fluoride absorbs through the skin as well as via mouth, making hot tubs and swimming pools places to add to the body's already excessive fluoride.

The old standby for restoring damaged myelin sheaths around nerves – lecithin – contains a whopping amount of phosphorus. However, some of it may have to be taken in order to restore neurological integrity or prevent further damage. Taking choline and inositol separately via supplement appears to dislodge stored chemicals from brain and other neurological tissue all at once, creating some rather bizarre and unsettling effects. (This info is based on a supplement containing 250 mg crystalline choline (from bitartrate) and 250 mg crystalline inositol (TwinLabs, Ronkonkoma, New York 11779). However, without choline and inositol in some form, dimness of vision cannot be prevented or reversed, nor can damaged brain cell coverings be mended.

During the process of detox and mending, the body's detox and eliminatory systems need to be supported. Milk thistle will help sustain and cleanse liver function; (Milk thistle's scientific name is Silybum marinarum.) Stellaria spp. (common chickweed) will help prevent kidney damage/stress. Dulcamara (sweet nightshade) is the best source of atropine that I know of – very little (about a dime-size piece) of a fresh leaf can stop anticholinesterase flare-up from re-mobilized chemicals within minutes. (Must be held in the mouth and gently chewed for some minutes before swallowing.) Leaves vary in potency – the more purple on a leaf, the stronger it is. Dulcamara does not keep its potency well when dried – it gradually loses it (with stems losing potency more slowly). Copious amounts of water (non-fluoride containing spring water preferably) should be consumed, and bathing should be done with organic non-phosphate soaps.

Diet should be heavy on green veggies and other veggies (grown free of pesticide if possible). Carbonated beverages which contain phosphoric acid (many of them do) are to be absolutely avoided – they can burn out the kidneys all by themselves – even in people who have no organophosphate exposure. Milk, unfortunately, contains a high amount of phosphorus in proportion to its calcium content. A nutritional table can be consulted to find foods high in potassium, calcium and/or magnesium, but low in phosphates. A healing salve can be applied externally over the kidney and liver area to speed healing – with a base of olive oil and a thickener of beeswax, the herbal ingredients are comfrey, plantain (Plantago lanceolata – lanceleaf plantain – a common garden weed) and ordinary cooking sage (Salvia officinalis).

It needs to be noted that clothing contaminated with organophosphates cannot be washed clean, and trying to wash it with other items of clothing results in the contamination of all of them. Storage in drawers and closets will also result in contamination not only of other clothing items in the same place, but also contaminate walls, floors of closets, and the wood in the chests of drawers. Contaminated walls can be washed down first with organic soap and then immediately with a slurry of lime. This does not eliminate the chemical from the walls entirely, but creates a film which can bind to at least some of the chemicals as they out-gas. It will have to be repeated. While performing such an operation, vigorous fresh-air ventilation is essential. Protective clothing and face covering (disposable) would be helpful. Even with these precautions, there is no guarantee that such cleaning won't expose the person doing the cleaning to enough chemicals to cause discomfort or a few days of symptoms.

After reading the article on the Gulf War vets by Gary Null in the October 1998 issue of Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients I am wondering if part of the organophosphate exposure could have been via uniforms either sprayed to “de-bug” them or stored in a sprayed storage space. I get the impression that military personnel were not always knowledgeable about the properties and hazards of pesticides, and not routinely careful in their use. Clothing contaminated in such a way could well result in sickness and/or death over a period of time, to those wearing them.

Maria

Sources

Phosphorus: Henniger, Gordon R., Chapter 4, Drug and Chemical Injury – Environmental Pathology, pp. 146-245 in Kissane, John M., ed., Anderson’s Pathology – 9th ed. (St. Louis, C.V. Mosby Co. 1990)

Merck Manual – 13th ed., p. 1977

McGuigan, Hugh Alister, Applied Pharmacology, pp. 743-746, (St. Louis, C.V. Mosby Co. 1940)

Fluorine: Smith, Frank A., Fluroide Toxicity, pp. 277-283 in Corn, Morton, editor, Handbook of Hazardous Materials (San Diego, Academic Press 1993)

Hennigar, Gordon R., Chapter 4, Drug and Chemical Injury – Environmental Pathology, pp. 146-245 in Kissane, John M., ed., Anderson’s Pathology – 9th ed. (St. Louis, C.V. Mosby Co. 1990)

Merck Manual – 13th ed., p. 1970

McGuigan, Hugh Alister, Applied Pharamcology (St. Louis, C.V. Mosby 1940), p. 184

Organophosphates: Hennigar, Chapter (same as above), p. 226

Berkow, Robert, ed., The Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Therapy – 13th ed. (Rahway, NJ, Merck, Sharp & Dohme Research Laboratories 1977), p. 1482.

Dreisbach, Robt. H. and Wm. O. Robertson, Handbook of Poisoning: Prevention, Diagnosis and Treatment (Appleton & Lange, Norwalk, CT 1987) pp. 110-118.


Osmium

  • Guest
Maria doesn't know what she's talking about,...
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2004, 02:38:00 PM »
Maria doesn't know what she's talking about, and I fail to see the relevance for this thread.

The amount of phosphate contained in the worst peanut butter dope isn't high enough to cause you any health problems whatsoever. Period.


lugh

  • Guest
Organophosphorus Chemistry
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2004, 04:48:00 PM »
From Chapter 12 of The Chemistry of Phosphorus by John Emsley:

The generat structure of organophosphorus poisons is represented by the drawing where G1 and G2 are groups which are difficult to displace from phosphorus (e.g. alkoxy, dialkylamino or alkyl) whereas X is a fairly good leaving group (e.g. F or p--N02­ C6H4O-). Slight variations in structure can have very dramatic effects on the efficiency of organophosphorus poisons and this is undoubtedly due to the fact that the interaction of an enzyme with a substrate is very sensitive to the size, shape and polarity of the substrate molecule.



As Osmium stated, this structure isn't going to result from any reduction, since there's no way for a fluorine or thioether group to attach to elemental phophorus under these conditions  ;)  Maria doesn't display much actual knowledge of the organic chemistry of phosphorus, her primary goal seems to be pitching the products of a health food store  ;D  Many of her statements are obviously nonsense, Sarin synthesis is far more complex than she leads the reader to believe  ::)  For those that want to read all of chapter 12, here it is:




barkingburro

  • Guest
my 2 scents
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2004, 02:28:00 PM »
Soda containing phosphoric acid also contributes to osteoporosis; the acid having to be neutralized with calcium. Although phosphorus helps mediate calcium levels, high-phosphorus diets, especially when you're low in calcium, will lead to osteoporosis. Phosphorus is added to many edibles sold today - it helps to retain moisture and acts as an anti-caking agent. (And too much phosphorus in the diet can lead to muscle cramps, mini-strokes, high blood pressure, and soft tissue calcification - kidney stones and atherosclerosis).

source :

http://health101.org/art_osteo.htm



Soft drink phosphorous vs health: All the soft drinks have phosphoric acid in them to make them bubbly. This excess has a very deleterious affect on health. Phosphorous has an important bearing on the homeostasis of blood. Its excess leads to mineral imbalances that can be very detrimental to the body.

So the next time you want that soft drink, we suggest you look for that bubbly water without the phosphoric acid, sugar, Carmel color, or aspartame. Now that you realize what those soft drinks are doing to you, you might find the others quite refreshing

 
source :

http://www.vitalstar.com/Contents/health/articles/healthcorner/general/softdrinks.htm



Calcium Balance

Eating a red meat/high protein diet may leach calcium from the system (controversial). Sodium and the phosphoric acid in soda drinks also leach calcium. High fiber foods may increase calcium excretion and should be taken into consideration, especially when assessing requirements for the elderly.

source :

http://www.vitalnutrients.net/hq_handouts2.asp?VitaminName=Calcium



i understand that h3po3 is NOT phosphoric acid but the by product of an h3po3 rxn IS phosphoric acid and its very possible that there is residual h3po4 in the final product.

Rhodium

  • Guest
keep your acids apart
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2004, 02:36:00 PM »
All the soft drinks have phosphoric acid in them to make them bubbly.

Obviously incorrect, as the pop-pop-fizz-fizz in beverages is carbonic acid, an aqueous solution of carbon dioxide.

After such a blunder, I wouldn't believe the rest either.


elfspice

  • Guest
meth burns everything
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2004, 02:11:00 AM »
i would think the swelling joints is indeed psoriatic arthritis, being caused by an allergen produced as a side product of the hypo reaction. hypophosphorous salts are given to farm animals for certain types of illness... i don't see how residual hypo could cause a problem, but perhaps there is a side reaction which is unique to hypophosphorous and produces a small amount of a chemical which triggers the immune system to go into overdrive (psoriasis and eczema are in part auto-immune diseases, as is arthritis).

and i would suggest that this is actually an immune system response to spending so many 2-4 day periods without sleep. People get colds, flu, and all sorts of other signs of lowered immunity... sleep is all you need...

also, milk is great for two reasons whith meth. First is, it's not hard to stomach it even when you're really high (unless your gear is full of pseudo/ephedrine and ppa) and the best thing is, it's full of amino acids, you can guarantee there's loads of tryptophan, tyrosine and phenylalanine in there, all of which in my experience will result in better rushes when you dose up, and can really almost stop all the nasty effects of the comedown (well, unless it's that stinky yellow crank shit). I remember one time taking phenylalanine and tyrosine tablets when i started coming down, and i pretty much stayed high and up until i slept the next night. I also find gingko seems to extend the effect of speed a fair bit.

the only way to get the good rushes is to be well rested and well fed. no amount of extra gear is gonna make you any higher if you're body is already running on reserves and starting to decompose the fats and proteins in your body.

dwarfer

  • Guest
eggs yogurt and milk
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2004, 07:21:00 PM »
Listen, an imbalance of minerals may in fact cause wierd symptoms including fluid retention, dehydration, and what have you.

EGGSHELLS contain significant amounts of readily available
calcium.

If the ignorant person who delete my first post wants to dispute the matter, I'm game.  What, was the humor too much?

If  Toltec blends the milk and whole eggs including the egg shells (which i recomended cleaning ) and yogurt thick enough to suspend the egggshells, a nutricious palliative to the symptoms may be realized.


biotechdude

  • Guest
Meth health Issues
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2004, 02:20:00 AM »
<<In addition, the blood pressure and pulse rate skyrocket, greatly increasing the risk of a heart attack. Body temperatures also increase greatly, often approaching 108 degrees fahrenheit, resulting in brain damage, coma, and death.

There is great risk of mental illness with prolonged use. Chronic methamphetamine use will result in symptoms closely resembling paranoid schizophrenia, with auditory and visual
hallucinations, delusions (especially delusions of insects crawling on the skin, also known as formication), panic, anger, and homicidal or suicidal thoughts
>>

Now these are the health effects of long term or excessive meth use.  However, what are the immediate health dangers of meth use?  Have meth or any specific impurities been shown to actually biochemically 'hurt' your body (as in the phosphate salt theory = arthritis).

This is of course aside from the obvious dehydration, malnourishment and exhaustion problems from the increased workload on your body.

Also found was

<<Often chronic users may go several days, even a couple weeks, without sleep>>

Weeks! without sleep??!!  Is this even possible..or what's the longest hardcore bees have stayed up for?