Electro Ingot PD use Pseudo or not to use Pseudo !

[Atome]

Hi,

I would like to take the way of the Palladium ingot with the Pseudoephedrine(pill sudafed).
I have thus to carry out several research on the TFSE.
I read upwards and into diagonal all the forums on  hydrogenation by Palladium.
But without response on the reduction with the Pseudo one.
Several opinions it’s really divided.
The "Festerlytic_hydrogenation" which indicates that the Pseudo one can be used but does not explain the modification carried out on the catalysis.
I also found a levelling of the "festerlytic_hydrogenation" by WIZARD X.
Who also states that the Pseudo one can be used but without specified procedure.
Of other post indicates that the ester of Pseudo cannot be tiny room in Meth at least very badly 10% Only !.
It indicates that this source is on the site of Rhodium.ws, but I found anything on this subject has share the famous formula "festerlytic_hydrogenation" .

Another post indicates that Silver would be more suited a to reduce Ether of Peudo .

Malaci indicates that it succeeded has to reduce the Pseudo one correctly reduce of it the concentration of the (H2SO4) in  electrolyte.

Whereas different refutes its method!!! (

Only the Ephédrine would function on this method???

And the Pseudo one will not be exploitable ?

Can you help me to clarify this problem ?


Best Regards.

[ChemoSabe]

Do searches on these 3

wayupnorth - He's the only guy who really presented a somewhat decent and comprehensible body of valid and quite useful information based upon _lots_ of first hand experimentation with the fester style of electro. At least that I ever saw. And he did it all with standard USA OTC pillstocks which were mostly cheap equivalents of a name brand decongestant (and that means psuedoephedrine) He successfully defied a lot of the rumors about what supposedly could not be done. (like using psuedo and using silver for both anodes and cathodes) But I think he came to it already armed with a real talent for chemistry combined with a trailblazing spirit and he did not begin experimenting with electro as what you might call a newbee. It isn't what I'd call a great place for anyone with no chemistry experience to start. But it is where I once thought I would.

2) Malaci - not as much output as wayupnorth had but some fine details that are easy to gloss over are subtly present in his electro findings. You found one of those details. There is at least one more. Malaci eventually gave up electro in faovor of the RP/I style rxn.

3) dwarfer - he's the only one left and still present here today (that I remember) that appeared to have really broken through and got a real grasp on how to make the electro work. As I recall he preferred using what is sometimes called the "chlorephedrine intermediary" or something close to it, to do his reductions from. I think. Like wayupnorth this bee gave this path up in favor of "the birch".

All the info you need to do your own experimenting in this realm is definitely there but I won't say that it's easy to find or easy to cohesively bring that found info together into an apparently usable whole. Definitely puzzlework.

Preparing an absolutely clean, pure and untainted precursor (the psuedo) should be your first and biggest concern though. That will be more than half the battle.

Do searhces on these 3 guys and refine the searches with words like "electro" and read everything you find a few times and take notes and then maybe ask questions of someone who has real experience.

I don't.

PS. Wizard X is another one still present who may know a thing or two about this.

[Master_Alchemist]

Atome, you think too much dude.
I read the text on rhodium and found it fairly straight forward. I also thought that it shit all over the Nh3/Li reaction and as a result I am almost ready to roll!
I am actually wondering how many cooks if any, are using this procedure?! I'm about 3 weeks off trial runs and im frantically trying to predict the quality of the gear. If anyone has info on this I would greatly appreciate this!!
Atome, I was going to try and answer your questions, but to be honest with you, your grammar is confusing, therefore I will not. read the text over and over again like i did!!

[isopropylcumshot]

This has been discussed to great extent !

By this method, you cannot effectively reduce
'pseudo-E HCL' or 'FreeBase pseudo-E'

You must first halogenate the pseudo-E !
- this too has been discussed to the hilt
It has been deemed that the 'Chloro-' is the best choice for OTC & safety reasons. UTFSE and search CHLOROEPHEDRINE

It has also been deemed that a Co-ACID would bennefit this reduction... Ask uncle fester by PM and he knows the answer to this.

There is an OTC source of Palladium metal that would work well in your electro dream

an audio electronics connector

http://ca.geocities.com/artiedc/files/Pd.jpg

good luck: this bee has tried CTH and standard hydrogenation of 'pseudo-E HCL' using Lab Grade Pd\C catalyst.  The results were very poor !

peace

[dwarfer]

If you decide to pursue this I'll send you a design for a two part cell that is dramatically superior to Festes, though I do no mean to take anything away from him in the statement.

The first post on the topic was in a drug newsgroup: the guy used a mercury cathode if i recall.

Loook for "Silver Dream Racing" for the first use of Ag which worked, though the yield was not great.

When first starting this, ephedrine was available in 30 MG
pink cpsules and a snap to extract.

later, pseudo was used and it was more difficult: mainly because it has to be clean. real clean.

The chloro process converts about 30% (if I recall) of the
e to pseudo e: oops, I mean the other way around: the pseudo > 30 to 40% to e:  i suspect the strong dehydrating
environment in hot HCl and ZnCl2 pulls the OH away far enough for the chain to vibe around, and when the OH re slams back into the alpha C, sometimes it's surprised to be 180 degrees from where it was.

I think Rhode has a theoretical maximum % available from the reduction of the chloro intermediary, but I don't recall what it is or how it is arrived at.
But the product is real nice. A good birch approaches it.
yeah,  know It's all sposed to be the same......

The best results I had were using PdC, which is admittedly cheating a bit. Well, alright, a lot.

Were I to undertake this again, I would try it with urushibara Ni, or maybe Ur. Cobalt (or ppt cobalt activated with H)

Oh wait a minute: I  thnk Rhode commented on the maximum conversion of psudo to chloro-pseudo ephedrine.  yeah,that's it.

IMHO the conversion is significantly higher if you accomplish it in a microwave, which I've described
somewhere how to do..

I agree that Way Up North was the most proficient in
getting it down.  In summary, unless you are a GUP extraction magician, i would rec ommend extracting
ephedra for the alkaloids.  the reaction is somewhat
fragile.

INtroducing ultrasound to the protocol could enhance
it's success greatly.
==========================

good luck.  It would be good to see that technique refined,
as it produces excellent goods, and is totally clandistine.

===========

[Atome]

Thank you  for all its  information which complemented the reduction by catalysis .

I deduce from it that the way of the CHLORO is essential to reduce Pseudoephedrine
It's a pity that this one is not easy A to implement it asks for material (condenser) or produced (chloroform, thionyl chloride,….) and time of backward flow (I board not to find the method of making it by the microwave! )

Before beginning any reduction 

I acquired a Palladium plate (fine Palladium) in the shape of square of 15 gr. (1.77 Inch out of  1.77 Inch).
My first problem is which has anodized it Palladium blackened not!
I let it run for 20 minutes but the plate remains always clean only the edges blackens very slightly. 
I have to increase my source DC. by 12v has 500 ma but there is not improvement.

Did you already meet kind of problem?


Best regards .

( Sorry for my poor English

[dwarfer]

Post 435996

(WizardX: "Lucas Reagent", Stimulants)

The reaction discussed by Wiz-X with ZnCl2 can be done in
a microwave in about 3 minutes or less, but it requires
a specially prepared microwave, ( hole in the side) and a
special microwave-insensitive vessell with the requisite plumbing (hole, tubing, and hose) to run to the outside.

Probably it could be done maybe once with a regular rubber
stopper, but they (the synthetic rubber) will quickly go
to hell with microwave irradiation.

=============

given the limitations you mention, you may consider
simply following Wiz-X's recipe for the route with
the CaCl2, but put the reagents in a simple threaded
PVC pipe nipple about 6 to 8" long, and after sealing
it up, immerse the pipe in  simmering water for a few hours.

Just to be safe, put the PVC pipe in a larger steel pipe.

should be no problem with just the PVC, but safety is
paramount, right?

Anyway, follow his instructions for extracting the FB and then salt it.
=================


for surface prep of the Pd, you reversed the current, right?

====

try gently wire brushing the surface first: if it does not turn black don't worry about it. 

At 12V you get 500 MA off 3 square inches?? something is wrong..  the resistance is too high..??

your english is fine.  ":<)

[Atome]

Thank you for this precious information .
or the chloropseudo fact must one use a solvent like the GAA or used directly from the solution manufactured?

[Atome]

Just 2 small questions 

1 - Must one anodize the ingot in the same solution electrolyses or separately?

2 - After 5 minutes anodization has 1 A 6 v my piece of palladium bubbles 

I always reverse the current has 1 A and 6v after 20 minutes my palladium should boil but nothing does without small bubbles just are has a presentiment of on the with dimensions one?

Must one increase the voltage or amperage?

Thank !

[WizardX]

Atome: Have a read of these XFiles, and then I'll see how I can help you?

http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/WizardX/X1/x1.html

Electrochemical Catalytic Reduction of Ephedrine.
Electrochemical Reduction of Halo-Ephedrine.