Author Topic: ethylamine  (Read 2737 times)

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El_Zorro

  • Guest
ethylamine
« on: October 26, 2002, 06:46:00 AM »
Ok, I'm in need of some ethylamine.  A lot.  Can anyone think of an OTC product that can be hydrolyzed or otherwise easily converted into ethylamine?  Are there any pure OTC sources?  I tried a substructure search on chemexper.com, but no luck.  Any thoughts?

Who is that masked man?

Aurelius

  • Guest
propionamide
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2002, 07:21:00 AM »
propionamide with OCl- will give ethylamine

(propionic acid + ammonium hydroxide)

(propionic acid can be had from MEK with OCl-)


Aurelius

  • Guest
supply
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2002, 07:28:00 AM »
btw, is ethylamine watched?  can it be easily purchased (as HCl salt) by joe-schmoe?

starlight

  • Guest
ethylamine is definitely watched
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2002, 11:53:00 AM »
in the US at least.

Aurelius

  • Guest
why?
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2002, 07:35:00 PM »
Why?  obviously there are many analogs, but any controlled substances directly use this in their synth?  (tryptamines, maybe?- aurelius doesn't spend a bunch of time in this area)

nutlin

  • Guest
I think ive seen it mentioned in a few synth's ...
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2002, 07:52:00 PM »
I think ive seen it mentioned in a few synth's before. Search rhodiums site and you should find what its used to make.

Besides drug synthesis, Its aslo used to make explosives.

jimwig

  • Guest
Aurelius - "(propionic acid can be had from MEK ...
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2002, 09:03:00 PM »
Aurelius -

"(propionic acid can be had from MEK with OCl-)"

would mind posting the details to this oh so sort after synth?

El_Zorro

  • Guest
Yeah, it's used in several MDE synths.
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2002, 09:10:00 PM »
Yeah, it's used in several MDE synths.  I didn't know it was used in explosives manufacturing, though, that's a new one on me.

Aurelius- Do you have any procedures, links, or refs for those synths?

Who is that masked man?

Aurelius

  • Guest
refs
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2002, 09:50:00 PM »
propionamide with OCl- will give ethylamine
hoffmann degradation/rearrangement (can't remember which one, but it does happen)

(propionic acid + ammonium hydroxide)

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/eleusis/methylamine27.html


just use the acetamide procedure, it should theoretically run the same way

(propionic acid can be had from MEK with OCl-)
haloform rxn.  everybody just thinks about testing for methyl ketones, but it does have synthetic application.  it's kind of nice because it doesn't oxidize C=C bonds.

El_Zorro

  • Guest
So really all one would have to do is react ...
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2002, 02:27:00 AM »
So really all one would have to do is react Ca(OCl)2 and MEK, and distill out the propionic acid.  Then use the propionic acid just as you would use acetamide in the hoffman rearrangement to get methylamine, but you would get ethylamine instead.  Looks great, Aurelius.

Who is that masked man?

jimwig

  • Guest
oh thankyou thankyou now just one more DAQ- if ...
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2002, 08:08:00 PM »
oh thankyou thankyou

now just one more DAQ- if you would be so kind

the "haloform rxn" you mention ---- is that "(Hypohalite version)" reaction reference in the Eulesis piece???


Vibrating_Lights

  • Guest
Acid chloride
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2002, 10:24:00 PM »
I think he is talking about an acid chloride???DOn't know though? Such as thionyl chloride or POCl3??
VL_

So much game I could sell a hooker some pussy
Vl_

PrimoPyro

  • Guest
Haloform and Hofmann
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2002, 10:24:00 PM »
The haloform and hofmann hypohalite degradation both share the use of hypochlorites, but they are different reactions.

The haloform uses calcium (or sodium, etc) hypochlorite with a methyl ketone to form a carboxylic acid salt and chloroform. Thus MEK gives sodium propionate and chloroform.

The sodium propionate is acidified and the propionic acid distilled off for recovery.

If the amide of the propionic acid (propionamide) is made, then more hypochlorite can react with it to induce the hofmann hypohalite degradation, forming ethylamine and CO2 gas.

As long as you dont pay through the roof for hypochlorites, and as long as you dont need tons of ethylamine, this is a good route to this compound with OTC chemicals.

PrimoPyro

Aurelius

  • Guest
Hey PrimoPyro, instead of acidifying and heading ...
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2002, 10:56:00 PM »
Hey PrimoPyro, instead of acidifying and heading straight to the distillation, you can cut down the volume a bit.  the propionic acid formed on acidification will now be in the chloroform. separate off the chloroform/acid mix.  now distill.  (of course you can dry the mix before hand, but that's up to the person distilling)

Nemo_Tenetur

  • Guest
propionates
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2002, 09:26:00 AM »
propionic acid/sodium propionate is used as preservative in food and should be available.

Aurelius

  • Guest
salts
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2002, 09:06:00 PM »
true, aurelius forgot about that.

jimwig

  • Guest
damn
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2002, 07:50:00 PM »

Aurelius

  • Guest
correction
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2002, 09:58:00 PM »
aurelius' post above isn't quite correct

Propionic acid + Ammonium hydroxide -> ammonium propionate, not propionamide

however, any of it's esters used in a similar manner will gives amides to be used in this synthesis.

Rhodium

  • Guest
Ammonium propionate dehydrates to propionamide at ...
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2002, 11:45:00 PM »
Ammonium propionate dehydrates to propionamide at high temp. You can also fuse the acid and the ester with Urea.

Aurelius

  • Guest
procedure
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2002, 05:32:00 AM »
do you have a procedure for those two pathways? mostly just need the temperatures/reflux times for the two reactions.  thanks again Rhodium! 

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/amide.preparation.html


Rhodium

  • Guest
Check out Vogel's book at my page too.
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2002, 11:35:00 AM »
Check out Vogel's book at my page too.

pickle11

  • Guest
ethyl iodode and ammonia
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2002, 09:36:00 AM »
the comlete book of ecstacy
chapter 9
LSD synth

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/tcboe/chapter9.html



"the other syntheses is diethylamine. It too makes you a marked man. Clandestine chemistry to the rescue. Diethylamine is a side product in the synthesis of ethylamine from ammonia and ethyl iodide which can be maximized with with a mole ratio of 1 to 2 respectively. It can be freed from the other two hydrochlorides (ethylamine, bp 16°C and triethylamine, bp 89°C) by basifying with excess 25% NaOH followed by fractional distillation (diethylamine, bp 55.5°C). "