Author Topic: future of safrole  (Read 25308 times)

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homeslice

  • Guest
future of safrole
« on: April 12, 2004, 05:30:00 AM »
With sassafras oil and other safrole-rich oils being impossible to obtain in the U.S., least to the best of my abilities, what is the future of small scale mdma production? I know the simple answer is to look to the north, but lets say this isnt viable, for arguments sake. Also lets assume that one cant source sassy rich oils in the US from anywhere. So when safrole cant be sourced from oils anymore, whats next?

My questions would be what are bees doing now about the current situation or planning to do when they run out of and cant source safrole anymore? I'm sure it wont be too much longer before the north is the same as here.

Also how are bees in EU producing mdp2p on the majority?

How feasible is the demethylation of eugenol to safrole with the standard clandestine equipment used in mdma manufacture?

Post 485827

(eXcidium: "Eugenol ---> Safrole Revisited", Methods Discourse)
Not really revisited at all. At least not in that thread.

Overall, summarizing the above, how are bees acquiring safrole?

I really just want to see what other bees are doing, or planning to do? Like whats after sassafras oil is gone?


ApprenticeCook

  • Guest
dont say it dont say it ...
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2004, 06:58:00 AM »
dont say it dont say it nnnnnnnnooooooooo.........
Happy thoughts, Happy thoughts, Happy thoughts....

Haha, no well your right sassy is getting impossible, swim is using reserves and only dreaming for personal use, screw the rest....

Rhodium has documents on the conversion to safrole on the site, have not used them but they are dictated out easy enough so they can be done... just need the materials.

Swim is in favour of growing your own sassy tree but its not viable for any amount of production, its been highly talked about around here and agreed its not really worth the trouble for the amount of e/o extracted.

GC_MS

  • Guest
You serious you don't understand the Game?
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2004, 10:31:00 AM »
I really just want to see what other bees are doing, or planning to do? Like whats after sassafras oil is gone?

This is a simple question with a very simple answer. If the amount of sassafras oil available to individuals decreases, the number of clandestine MDMA cooks may shrink. Hence, you might think this may lead to less MDMA hitting the streets, which after all is what the Government wants (it says...). However, that is not what will happen, or at least will not happen as long as MDMA remains a Schedule I substance. Because the amount of sassafras oil available to legitimate commercial enterprises totals many tons, organized crime will use its long greedy tentacles and engage in the semi-industrial production of MDMA (which it actually is doing already). The markets will be flooded and prices will be "reasonable". This is the scenario the Government doesn't like (it says), but is very likely to happen. So there won't be an MDMA shortage even with less cooks.


Smilaxium

  • Guest
Large scale = large stock
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2004, 11:08:00 AM »
There will be less cooks as GC/MS already mentioned. And even with only a limited number of cooks I guess still there will be plenty of MDMA hitting the streets. I bet those semi-industrial operations have a stock that is large enough to feed the world for another year of two  :o

Another point of concern is the emerging of all kind of fake MDMA pills, although that is most likely only to occur there were there is no stock or where it is difficult to smuggle MDMA in large quantities into the country ....


ApprenticeCook

  • Guest
Less lower scale cooks replaced by a handfull...
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2004, 11:45:00 AM »
Less lower scale cooks replaced by a handfull of larger scale ones... gc is right, thats the direction of the times. Thats what govt hates, diversion is the key, everyone has a price.

weedar

  • Guest
come on
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2004, 03:16:00 PM »
You all missed this thread's main question and you know
it.. What are the most viable alternatives to sassy?

Beeing a euro-bee I haven't heard of any other oils beeing
banned due to safrole-content, there are lots of options,
even if they won't bee as good as sassy.

Eugenol is available, so is catechol..But, the procedure
to get to safrole from those sources isn't nearly as OTC
as the rest of the safrole->MDMA procedure. I'd love to
see someone report on using PTC from comforter in the
reaction, the ones mentioned in

Post 427515

(moo: "OTC fabric softener phase transfer catalysts", Novel Discourse)



homeslice

  • Guest
I was talking about small scale production.
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2004, 07:21:00 PM »
Im not talking about what is going to happen to the future of mdma im talking about what is the future of safrole? I dont care if big cooks replace small cooks or fake pills gets smuggled in or the black market takes care of the times. I wish i could have started the thread off with all these parameters but i thought i did i guess.

I was talking about small scale production. I also made sure to say that the oils were not available. Lets assume, again, there is no black market, and there is no sassy oil. It doesnt exist.

What then?

What about this? 

Post 451672

(Rhodium: "Novel Oxidative Demethylation of Eugenol", Novel Discourse)

Have any bees fucked around with this? Vitus hails this find as an end to sassafras oil but noone ever followed up on the post. Is this feasible?


_mu_

  • Guest
Lets assume, again, there is no black market,...
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2004, 07:35:00 PM »

Lets assume, again, there is no black market, and there is no sassy oil.


Your assumptions clearly show your background. There *is* a black market, and there always *will be* a black market. It may not be accessible to everybody, but it is there. Guesstimates for the size of the total black market say that it is about 10-15% of the GDP. You think you can take that away with some paper regulations?

And trying to synthesize safrole from eugenol is something which has been discussed to death at this board. UTFSE.

Smilaxium

  • Guest
MDMA replaced ?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2004, 07:42:00 PM »
Well, if it would become very hard to obtain/manufacture safrol at a reasonabl cost(and thus MDMA), I guess there will be other types of drugs synthesized/consumed. In the end, MDMA isn´t that spectecular and there are enough alternatives...


homeslice

  • Guest
Ok mu. next time read my post
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2004, 08:04:00 PM »
Ok mu. Apparently you cant see why i said that. Let me spell it out so you can understand.
I dont care about the black market. I dont care about large scale MDMA production, pill smuggling, or fake pills. I specifically asked about small scale mdma production. I really dont fucking care that it is 10-15% of whatever. Maybe i should have said this

Lets assume, again, FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT, there is no black market, and there is no sassy oil. It doesnt exist.



You insult me "about my background". What the fuck does that mean?  Maybe you cant read english because your post answered this


I dont care if big cooks replace small cooks or fake pills gets smuggled in or the black market takes care of the times.



Maybe you missed the part about I DONT CARE. You should just delete your post, its completely irrelevant.
And i also know about the demethylation of eugenol to safrole. Im simply asking if people have attempted it. Hence the "Is it feasible?" You talk about the synth of safrole from eugenol being discussed to death yet i still see no bee talking about success with the proceedure. I found plenty of threads with no successful end to them. And if im wrong, point it out to me b/c id love to read a writeup about it. Really. Im UTFSE for the last 3 hours looking for a success story to the eugenol demethylation. Ya know id even argue that it hasnt been talked about enough.

Ok now, twice ive set parameters that have been overlooked. I kinda figured this was going to happen when i started the thread.

Ok lets get back on topic, once again. What is the future of safrole? Please read the post. **NOT** the black market, cooks, or mdma. And i really dont care about your theories.




_mu_

  • Guest
If you ask a question, and you don't get the...
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2004, 10:45:00 PM »
If you ask a question, and you don't get the answer you expect, twice, what does that learn you about the way you're asking questions?

homeslice

  • Guest
No, the first time i wasn't as clear as i...
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2004, 11:17:00 PM »
No, the first time i wasn't as clear as i should have been. The second post pretty much clarified where i was going with the post.

That second post, is the one that you didnt read. Ya know, the one that said not to talk about everything you did talk about.
[edit] is there a way to delete a whole thread and start it over?  :)


Vitus_Verdegast

  • Guest
I'm sorry but..
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2004, 01:08:00 AM »
Vitus hails this find as an end to sassafras oil but noone ever followed up on the post. Is this feasible?

Why shouldn't it be feasible? Give me 1 good reason.
You have in front of you a paper written by researchers who investigated this method and reported their results in well-known reputable chemistry journal. This is not Uncle Fester's book, you know. What more can you ask?

Now get your lazy ass off that computer, into the lab, investigate the method and report your results!  ;)


homeslice

  • Guest
im gonna try it just gonna take a while
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2004, 02:21:00 AM »
Im tryin to figure out what it means before gettin into the lab heh. Since i have absolutely no chemistry education whatsoever, it takes me a long time to look up and figure out what something like this means 4-Propenyl-benzene-1,2-diol [4-allylcatechol, 3,4-dihydroxyallylbenzene] It just takes a while :(

Im confused however by how it yields  "furnish 34 as a viscous orange solid" I understand that that big name up there is 34, but what exactly does this procedure yield? It says it is an Oxidative Demethylation of Phenol's. Ok lemme break that down.
With oxygen it strips off the methyl part of eugenol yielding safrole. Maybe? I dunno. That cant make sense then because why does it yields a "vicsouse orange solid"? That aint safrole... :(  
I can do it if it was in english but i just cant understand all those chemical names they confuse the fuck outta me. And when i think i figure out what Eugenol is in a chemical formula, some patent refers to it as something else lol.

Edit: After more hours of reading ive read that the demethylation of Eugenol yields catechol which then needs to be methylated into benzodioxole.


_mu_

  • Guest
This is not Uncle Fester's book, you know.
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2004, 08:41:00 AM »

This is not Uncle Fester's book, you know. What more can you ask?


If it wasn't posted on this forum, it can't be true.

homeslice:Not to disencourage you, but if you have 'no chemistry background', you have a very low chance to succeed. Making mdma from scratch is way harder than making mdma from safrole. There's a reason that you won't find any posts of people saying that they succeeded in demethylating eugenol: it's damn difficult, and people who are able to do it are usually also able to get safrole legally. On universities, safrole (and 2,5-DMB, and 3,4,5-TMB) are just building blocks for other interesting things besides 5ht2a-agonists :-)


...and if this isn't what you wanted to hear, why did you ask your question anyway?

moo

  • Guest
Since i have absolutely no chemistry education
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2004, 09:50:00 AM »
Since i have absolutely no chemistry education whatsoever, it takes me a long time to look up and figure out what something like this means 4-Propenyl-benzene-1,2-diol [4-allylcatechol, 3,4-dihydroxyallylbenzene] It just takes a while :(

In that case you might want to educate yourself. Don't make the basics harder than they really are, learn them.


homeslice

  • Guest
Well mu, not moo, right now im leaning toward...
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2004, 08:58:00 PM »
Well mu, not moo, right now im leaning toward taking a stab at demethylation of eugenol to catechol then remethylating to safrole. In your post you say how hard it is. Have you ever tried it? Can you please show me some testimony from some bees who have tried it? I tried to look it up and came up with nothing. Just ppl with hopes of trying it then changing their minds. How do i know they changed their minds? I PM'd them and asked them how it went.
Well i thought tackling honey was going to be impossible, especially with everyone saying it was impossible w/ no chem background, and then i did it. And now that i did that im going to try something else. Its not really about making the money from the honey or enjoying the honey, its more or less just the conquering of a project that i put my mind to. I think it gives me alotta self confidence.  :)


There's a reason that you won't find any posts of people saying that they succeeded in demethylating eugenol: it's damn difficult, and people who are able to do it are usually also able to get safrole legally.



Your saying ppl dont do it because its too hard. But then you say ppl dont do it bc they can source it. Its a contradiction that i been looking into. It seems more and more that the latter is the truth. People arent really attempting it b/c they can source it. And they can. I mean i probably can. But back to the point, if it is damn difficult and if i fuck up and fail, i can say that it is truly hard and settle the contradiction.
I dont know anything about universities or building blocks?

This is exactly what i wanted to hear. Now theres a little contraversy and some discussion.
What are your thoughts on the demethylation and why its "damn difficult"? Im just lookin over the synths right now, but if you can or some bee can point out a real reason why its so difficult, id love it bc then i can save my money that would have been spent on wasted chems  :)




_mu_

  • Guest
Well then, that's settled.
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2004, 10:27:00 PM »
Well then, that's settled. You try it, write a nice report on it and say how difficult it really is (or not), and as an added bonus you'll get some nice mdma x-tals.

homeslice

  • Guest
Sounds good Sometime in may ill write up what...
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2004, 11:33:00 PM »
Sounds good
Sometime in may ill write up what i found  :)


eXcidium

  • Guest
sorry??
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2004, 10:46:00 AM »
Sorry ppl?

What is hard about demethylating eugenol?
It's much simpler than MDP-2-P to MDMA
(except for the steam distillation, I wish I could "skip" over that one)

I 'm already on my way doing it and in some days I'll have some notes to tell ya all

It's not very OTC, but it's a solid procedure