Easiest way to amphetamine in the kitchen+Fentanyl

[Rhodium]

Right... Which means that one gram of that is equivalent to 700-750 kilos of sparkling white pure heroin. Saves quite some space in your stash.

Can't we hijack Eli Lilly's entire workforce to help us make such a simple bioisostere for our beloved LSD molecule?

[obia]

this beastie would also be legal in many countries provided it was used for er..opening conversations at parties, as a novelty egg timer filling, etc
back to a qualitative aspect I think dipipanone is much nicer than fentanyl. fentanyl is too itchy

[Rhodium]

The opiate mentioned here by slappy is pretty short-acting (80 minutes), but the article sports several even shorter-acting, down to 5 minutes. Interesting.

[slappy]

Well, that article was about attempts to make short acting fentanyl derivatives.  And at 80 minutes, it is not that short-acting. Actually, it is the longest acting of any in that paper including Fentanyl and Carfentanil. The goal of this group, of course, was to find these short acting opiates so that procedures (like minor surgery) could be done on an outpatient basis, very en vouge in todays health care industry. (in America, at least)

I think I got the ED₅₀ those compounds wrong. I don't have the paper at the same location as the computer, so I'm just going from memory.

[foxy2]

"Right... Which means that one gram of that is equivalent to 700-750 kilos of sparkling white pure heroin. Saves quite some space in your stash"

Would you get high on ONE molecule of that shit?
Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety

[terbium]

Would you get high on ONE molecule of that shit?
Nah, even a nanogram (10^-9 gram) of a substance with a molecular weight of 100 (10⁺²) contains:

(6X10⁺²³)X(10^-9/10⁺²) =

(6X10⁺²³)X(10^-11) = 6X10⁺¹² molecules or six trillion molecules.

[Rhodium]

And with 100 billion brain cells, there are just 1000 molecules per brain cell available to achieve this effect (not counting the molecules still in the peripheral system), and of course not all neurons sports opioid receptors.

[foxy2]

Enough Avagadro already!!!

My thoughts were more along the lines of how in the hell could you ever safely disperse such a substance.  Don't know if i could trust any technique.  At least if I was the one doing it.  Blotters I guess, but I am skeptical of that. 

I wonder what kind of quality controls they put on the fentanyl dispensaries?  Hmmm Six-Sigma just don't seem good enough to me...  Maybee if all your errors were on the low side.


How do they accurately make blotters?
Every picture in my mind is of drops, uneven coverage and other shit messing it all up.
Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety

[flipper]

Are these the same:

phenethyl-piperidone-4 and 1-(beta-phenethyl)-4-piperidone  
You've gotta love me.

[PrimoPyro]

They are, although I believe the first entry is incorrect. I suppose you meant to type phenethyl-4-piperidone, or perhaps phenethyl-piperid-4-one.

But yes, they are the same.

                                                   PrimoPyro
Vivent Longtemps La Ruche!

[Rhodium]

foxy: from what I have heard, blotters are made by measuring how much ethanol a certain piece of 100-square blotter paper can absorb, then dissolve 100x100µg (10mg) LSD in exactly that amount of ethanol, and then spread an even layer of the ethanolic LSD solution on the blotter with an eye-dropper, then allow to dry. The brotherhood of Eternal Love franchised this application procedure to several unemployed people, goes the saying.

[foxy2]

Rhodium
Sure that sounds all well and fine for something like LSD, since it ain't going to kiil anybody.

Think about paper chromatography, if you don't apply the liquid nice and evenly then it seems lhighly likely that HOT spots would form. With such potent deadly substances it seems like a gamble.  Maybee using multichannel pipettes to apply it, that would bee best.  Hell YEA, buy one of those automated pipette machines that can load a 96 well plate all at once, then adapt it to loading 96 hit sheets.

Shit one person could cover the opiate supply for the WHOLE WORLD if they had that going.  Imagine THAT!!!
Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety

[Rhodium]

That pipetting machine sounds like a good idea.

To avoid "hotspots" being detrimental to the user, do not make the blotter dosage so high that there is any health risk until a whole blotter sheet is ingested at once. As far as I know, carfentanil has such a large therapeutic window that 100x (a whole sheet) the active dose for a non-tolerant subject still is not lethal (don't quote me on this).

[terbium]

Shit one person could cover the opiate supply for the WHOLE WORLD if they had that going.  Imagine THAT!!!
My question is which if any of these fentanyls give the desirable heroin like high. Just look in PIHKAL and TIHKAL at the very different highs and effects from variations in the amphetamines, phenethylamines and tryptamines. I would imagine that these synthetic opiods also have a wide spectrum of highs and effects.

[slappy]

Well, we know that Fentanyl gives a rich, heroin like high. And many people think that it is much more euphoric than Heroin even. Also, a-Methylfentanyl which was supposedly very well accepted on the street, along with 3-Methylfentanyl and p-Fluorofentanyl. Many, many Fentanyl analouges have hit the street, more in europe than usa, especially eastern europe. During the 1980's in the Soviet Union, all sorts of different fentanyl's were readily available, and being sold as synthetic herion. After all, the Soviets were very good organic chemists.

Basically, it comes down to receptor binding. The binding effects at the µ-Opioid receptor are much different than the 5-HT_2A receptor. And the effects that the agonists of these receptors manifest are completely different. While these are both G-protein coupled receptors, there is much more of a physiological response from opioid agonists, whereas the Serotonin agonists exhibit a psycological response, which allows much more room for interpetation.

[Rhodium]

What would the difference in subjective effects be betwen between hypotetically selective mu, kappa and delta opioid agonists? Which would be the most euphoric, the most addictive, the best pain-killer, the strongest respiratory depressant etc?

What I want to know with this question is what receptor-binding profile would one look for in the pharmacological literature to find potential candidates for the effects one desires?

Are the receptors inter-regulatory, i.e. is it a difference between taking a mixed mu/delta agonist compared to two separate selective mu and delta agonists, provided that the binding is made just as strong by titrating the different dosages?

[flipper]

When I make a list of of all the chemicals used to synthesize carfetanil and fentanil ( maybe I didn't spelled it ride but whatever) It's a huge list. Can I shorten this list by say uing only MeOH or EtOH as solvent or use only one kind of dryingagent, without affecting the yield.
You've gotta love me.

[slappy]

The kappa and delta receptors play no real part in the effects you mentioned (euphoria, addictiveness, pain-killing, respiratory depression). Those are all effects are generally attributed to the µ-Opioid receptor. At the cellular level, they all activate G-proteins (35S-GTP gamma-S binding), activate inwardly rectifying K⁺ channels, inhibit calcium Ca²⁺ currents, and inhibit adenylyl cyclase, but the mu obviously posses many other properties that have yet to be fully extrapolated. We stil don't really understand any of the receptors. It is only in the last few years that they have been able to solve the exact structure of the various receptors by x-ray crystallography and protein NMR. Having the full structural conformation of the receptors allows us to better understand ligand docking, but we're still clueless about how the subjective effects are actually elicited. Apperently, when the ligand finds it's way into the binding pocket, and arranges itself into it's binding conformation by coordinating with the active sites on the amino acid residues in protein pocket, and the protein actually changes shape, rearranges to it's "agonized" conformation until the ligand detaches. This, of course is what elicits the subjective effects.

For our purposes, there are a select few receptors that we are looking to target, namely the µ-Opioid, 5-HT_2A, CB₁ Cannabinoid, Etc. This is, of course, not meant to imply that the other receptor subtypes are without merit, just that for what we are looking for (= fun compounds), they're just not the place to be.

I just came across an interesting compound. N-(4-Bromobenzyl)-5-Methoxytryptamine. Apperently it is a very potent and selective ligand for the 5-HT_2A receptors (K_i= 0.1nM) It was reported by Glennon et al: "Influence of amine substituents on 5-HT_2A versus 5-HT_2C binding of phenylalkyl- and indolylalklamines." J. Med. Chem. 1994 37 1929.

This could very easily be made from 5-Methoxytryptamine (which could be made from melatonin) by reacting with 4-Bromobenzylchloride in CH₂Cl₂ catalysed by DMAP or Hünig's Base (DIPEA).

[flipper]

flipper
Hive Bee)
03-27-02 19:04

Post 288582

(flipper: "question", Methods Discourse)      

When I make a list of of all the chemicals used to synthesize carfetanil and fentanil ( maybe I didn't spelled it ride but whatever) It's a huge list. Can I shorten this list by say uing only MeOH or EtOH as solvent or use only one kind of dryingagent, without affecting the yield.

Well???  

You've gotta love me.

[slappy]

You are definatly not in a position to be making Carfentanil. You don't yet have the experience to be handling such incredibly toxic compounds. I know you want to make Fentanyl and LSD, and I think nothing wrong with that, but you are going to need some more experience before approaching these kind of synthesis. Otherwise you'll end up killing yourself and (god forbid) a host of users downstream of you.

To answer your question, no. There are times for alcohol, and there are times for aprotic solvents.