Author Topic: Hg Amalgamation rates  (Read 12681 times)

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Vibrating_Lights

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Re: Hg Amalgamation rates
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2002, 08:28:00 AM »
Will the Al reduce the ketone to the alkene if no methylamine is present at the al surface.
VL_

Bwiti

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Re: Hg Amalgamation rates
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2002, 09:05:00 AM »
Thanks Hydro! When using this method to produce meth or MDMA, side reactions create pinacol and other useless shit, which of course reduces yields. The only way I know of to minimize these side reactions is try to keep water out, and use excess methylamine. The only other thing I can think of is to make sure the Schiff's base has completely formed before the addition of Al/Hg. Should one let the methylamine/MDP-2-P sit for an hour before starting the reduction? Peace! 8)

  Love my country. Fear my government.

Vibrating_Lights

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Re: Hg Amalgamation rates
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2002, 10:41:00 AM »
Chromic..  pepole want to scale the methods because they are completely OTC and Cheap.  VL_ anticipates a increce in the quailty of street MdMa because there is about to be a great surplus.   The procedures are easy to learn and the materials to needed scaale to retirement quantaties are unbelievelbly cheap.
VL_

Osmium

  • Guest
Re: Hg Amalgamation rates
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2002, 10:41:00 AM »
> Should one let the methylamine/MDP-2-P sit for an hour
> before starting the reduction?

Not necessary if you follow some rules:
1. thick Al (only little surface area, so the Al doesn't have to reduce ketone to dissolve, but can concentrate on the imine instead)
2. slowly adding the ketone to the reduction already containing the methylamine (this means pushing the equilibrium to the right by having shitloads of MeNH2 around for every ketone molecule to react with, this keeps the ketone concentration low throughout the reaction)
3. employing good strirring so that the imine has a chance to get to the Al/Hg surface

Try it, it works.

I'm not fat just horizontally disproportionate.

Bwiti

  • Guest
Re: Hg Amalgamation rates
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2002, 10:11:00 AM »
"thick Al (only little surface area, so the Al doesn't have to reduce ketone to dissolve, but can concentrate on the imine instead)"

  Thanks! I have access to strips of aluminum that are used in mid-welding, so I'd like to use the appropriate cutting machine to saw it into chunks, then amalgamate it. The reaction would take about 2 days to react, but at least one wouldn't have to worry about it boiling over.

"employing good strirring so that the imine has a chance to get to the Al/Hg surface"

  You know that motor with a spinning dish on top of it in a microwave? Well, I'll be replacing the motor with a faster one, so the next time I need to stir a reaction, I'll put the flask on the spinning dish, then suspend a glass rod into the mixture. There's no need for the rod to spin; the dish will do all the work. Maybe marbles could be added near the end of the reaction to speed things up. Peace! 8)

  Love my country. Fear my government.

Osmium

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Re: Hg Amalgamation rates
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2002, 01:05:00 PM »
?????

I'm not fat just horizontally disproportionate.

Flip

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Re: Hg Amalgamation rates
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2002, 01:43:00 PM »
just a little advice..... if your really serious about that strange stirring method....... and if you ever do an AL/HG in it, DO NOT TURN IT ON!  I don't know why you would use a microwave in the first place, it seems kinda impractical to me.
Flip

Bwiti

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Re: Hg Amalgamation rates
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2002, 06:17:00 AM »
"and if you ever do an AL/HG in it, DO NOT TURN IT ON!"

  I left out some important info: The door was taken off the microwave, and it's impossible to turn on, because everything above the spinning dish was cut off with oxy/acetylene with a cutting torch. A cutting torch can easily cut straight through several inches of steel; very fun! One of my hobbies is gutting various appliances for their motors, fans, step-down transformers, switches, etc.. I love fixing and inventing stuff. An over-head stirrer is kind of hard for me to make, because when I use glue/resin to fix a glass rod to the motor, it has to be on straight or it'll wobble when you turn it on. That's why a spinning flask is more practical for me. Peace! 8)

  Love my country. Fear my government.

terbium

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Re: Hg Amalgamation rates
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2002, 06:52:00 AM »
An over-head stirrer is kind of hard for me to make, because when I use glue/resin to fix a glass rod to the motor, it has to be on straight or it'll wobble when you turn it on.
That is why you use a flexible coupling - piece of thick wall rubber tubing etc. - to join the motor shaft to the stirring rod.

Bwiti

  • Guest
Re: Hg Amalgamation rates
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2002, 10:02:00 AM »
"That is why you use a flexible coupling - piece of thick wall rubber tubing etc. - to join the motor shaft to the stirring rod."

  Good idea! Sometime, I should take one of my motors to the hardware store, and see what tubing will best fit the shaft.

  Love my country. Fear my government.

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Cluster_Fucked

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Re: Hg Amalgamation rates
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2002, 10:04:00 AM »
Isn't that what is suggested here ~~>

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/equipment/overhead.html



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terbium

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Re: Hg Amalgamation rates
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2002, 07:49:00 PM »
Yes, that is what I am talking about.

noche

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Re: Hg Amalgamation rates
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2002, 09:31:00 PM »
I read a post once at Rhodiums, where 1.6 mg HgCl2 where used along with 50g of thick alu foil to reduce 38ml of MD-P2P. I cant find the post anymore, but one of my frinds migh still have a print of it somewhere at home.
It was claimed that up to 50ml of MD-P2P could be used in this reaction.
1.6mg HgCl2 to 38ml MD-P2P!! That would make one gram of Hg in it´s salt form enough to reduce at least 200 kg MD-P2P, just to take it to the extremes.
The final yelds was repported to be the usual 60%.
After what I have ben reading here it should work in the theorie, but how about you? have any of you had any  experience with such small of amounts of Hg salt?

Flip

  • Guest
Re: Hg Amalgamation rates
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2002, 07:59:00 AM »
If what you are saying is true that would be amazing.  The ratio a la MM calls for roughly .6 grams for 38mL MDP2P.  Then again the ratio would not really be proportional to the amount of ketone but to the amount/surface area of aluminum.  I would assume that 1.6 mg of salt would not be nearly enough to amalgamate the quantity of aluminum.  What were the observations from the amalgamation?

noche

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Re: Hg Amalgamation rates
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2002, 11:44:00 AM »
typing error: I meant 20kg MD-P2P not 200 kg.

noche

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Re: Hg Amalgamation rates
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2002, 01:23:00 PM »
How many cm3 would one gram of Hg in salt form cover?
As for the 1.6mg Hg salt to 38ml MD-P2P ratio, I was thinking that if the surface was the limitation, then a 50g solid block of of Al could just be used instead of the Al foil in order to equalice the amount of the Hg salt to the Al surface.

Amalgamation time could proberbly easily take up to a couples of weeks maybe months, but then then again a reductivly amination of 38ml MD-P2P could be done with only 1.6 mg of Hg salt.

baalchemist

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Re: Hg Amalgamation rates
« Reply #36 on: March 01, 2002, 06:42:00 PM »
1.6g's of HgCl2 to reduce 38g's is absolutely way too much Hg salt. 100mgs>HgCl2 will easily reduce 150g's or more. Of course you would already know this because its only been discussed here in about 500 prior posts. 

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noj

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Re: Hg Amalgamation rates
« Reply #37 on: March 01, 2002, 06:54:00 PM »
1.6 mg not grams. This seems pretty low, but if it works for yall...


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Flip

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Re: Hg Amalgamation rates
« Reply #38 on: March 01, 2002, 11:49:00 PM »
Then again it's not really possible to "over-amalgamate" an amalgamation.  Excess Hg salts will be reduced to the element.

_flip_@hushmail.com

noche

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Re: Hg Amalgamation rates
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2002, 05:29:00 PM »
So 20 mg HgCl2 with 20g of thick Al foil will reduce 40g of ketone in the same yeld as with 100 mg HgCl2 except for the reaction time wich is longer. Ratios are from Bright Stars MDMA Synthesis.