The Vespiary

The Hive => Chemicals & Equipment => Topic started by: mtnfrogger198 on April 04, 2003, 01:13:00 AM

Title: Vacuum Sources... Really!
Post by: mtnfrogger198 on April 04, 2003, 01:13:00 AM: Hi all you bees out there. My previous question was rated UTFSE. I guess what I really wanted to know is... do you bees prefer oil pumps, or aspirators? I could never get my aspirator to pull more than 15 inHg or so, which isn't enough for distilling the ketone.

Swim is gonna try the Sodium bisulfite method, which still requires distillation to obtain the pure ketone. Has anyone ever been successful doing this at atmospheric pressure, or even 15inHg, ??? How much does the temp shoot up for 15inHg distillation?
Title: aspirators really do work for ketone
Post by: fathornet on April 04, 2003, 08:52:00 AM: swif got a shallow well pump 3/4hp from big orange and built the station on rhodiums site.
she modified to get the most vac.
the resevoir had ice added to give a high ice to h20 ratio about 80:20% , maybe helps ultimate vac
also used 2 nalgene aspirators in paralell to give more flow cfm, maybe overcome leaks better than if only one were used.
anyhowz auto vac gauge used and went to limit 30 inhg+
analog gauges seem to bee in accurate at this range
the real test was that it distill very clean transparent piss color (the kind of piss after b vitamin supplement)
ketone distilled at 145-160C ;)
Title: Vacuum source
Post by: ballsdeep on April 04, 2003, 11:06:00 AM: Wouldn't one of those Aeration pumps that are used in fish aquariums work? They're pretty cheap I think. (And quiet)
Title: fridge pump
Post by: Vitus_Verdegast on April 04, 2003, 03:07:00 PM: Why don't you use a fridge pump? They cost nothing, don't waste liters of clean water and SWIM's pump distills MDP2P at 180°C.

You can even connect 2 pumps in series to get a high vac.
Title: fathornet
Post by: becomezen on April 04, 2003, 05:00:00 PM: fathornet : how much did the total cost of the aspirator station come to ?
Title: becomezen, SWIM recently built the water ...
Post by: blaaky on April 04, 2003, 10:55:00 PM: becomezen,

SWIM recently built the water aspirator w/ plans from Rhodium's also.

The 3/4HP jetpump was about $175 I think. PVC pipe and a bucket
were only a few dollars.

I bought a nalgene aspirator and a nickel-plated chrome aspirator
they were around $20 for both from an online supplier.

All prices in US Dollars

-blaaky
Title: low budget hi perf vac station
Post by: fathornet on April 05, 2003, 12:10:00 AM: becomezen: the hi perf vac station that pulled my ketone at 145-160C was relatively cheap;
shall well jet pump from big O    $400
2 nalgene aspirators    30
resevoir 55 gal drum drill and top cut    20
misc recircilating plumbing/fittings    50
total $500

to save on the ice that is added to the res its better to use a freezer that has been giving a couple of days to freeze a block about 70% total volume run about 10% h20. :-[
Title: 500$ for and aspirator system?
Post by: raffike on April 05, 2003, 07:01:00 AM: 500$ for and aspirator system?One could get very good pump with that price.
Title: Vac source important Part of lab
Post by: fathornet on April 06, 2003, 12:28:00 AM: raffike, you are right about getting mechanical vacuum for $500. but let me show you the benenfits of a recirclating vac station;
1)good reliable performance, dont have to worry about changes in vac due to toilet flush etc.
2)no oil need to change, if you have an over flow on your rez then have that go to the drain while lines from say your condensor line supply the water
3) relatively quiet if you have it set right; put the aspirators so the water exhaust is below water level, only noise should be jet pump.
4) finally one of the best indicators is the end result, it pulls ketone over 145-160C, and no need to ever do any maintenece, or rebuilds etc.
Vac source being an important lab tool not only for distilling, vac filtering, also vac drying; please share your experience with me in order to umprove vac performance. I've heard of bees pulling ketone at 100C here at the hive. Imagine the yeild improvement ;)
Title: aspirator exhaust below water level
Post by: Organikum on April 06, 2003, 02:27:00 AM: put the aspirators so the water exhaust is below water level

YES YES YES! thanks fathornet!

nobody knowa or mentions it. boosts and smoothes an aspirator at work. industrial liquid driven vacuum pumps always have the outlet below liquid surface and not for fun but for serious reasons. better performance is one.

fathornet gets the vacuum-king´s crown for this month I suppose ;D
ORG
Title: put the aspirators so the water exhaust is...
Post by: abolt on April 06, 2003, 03:46:00 AM: put the aspirators so the water exhaust is below water level.

In swims experience this will reduce your vacuum, measure it, with clearance of, and then below, the water level. ;)
Title: For vac filtering raf uses diaphragm pump that
Post by: raffike on April 06, 2003, 08:13:00 AM: For vac filtering raf uses diaphragm pump that pulls around 100 mm/Hg or so.His one stage rotary vane pump pulls 7-10 mm or so,not best vacuum,but slightly better than aspirator and no problems with circulating water.Ketone comes over 145-155 C and no notable decomposition is seen.Raf has never needed to vac dry though.
Title: Aspirator exhaust; cooling water inlet
Post by: Rhodium on April 07, 2003, 12:11:00 AM: I have routinely used the aspirator water exhaust as the source of cooling water when doing vacuum distillations in the past, and the vacuum did not decrease noticeably by doing that. It is a bit impractical, but it works.
Title: $500?????? Damn boy for $250 bucks you can go...
Post by: sYnThOmAtIc on April 08, 2003, 06:53:00 AM: $500?????? Damn boy for $250 bucks you can go down to your local refridgeration supply store and get a ritchie yellow jacket 3cfm 30 micron oil pump and distill safrole at 65c or you can go all out and spend 380bucks and get a 6cfm 10 micron that would probably distill that shit at round 40-50c dunno for sure. But the 30micron thing is more a rating for the oil vapour pressure I think not ultimate vacuum.
Title: richie yellow jacket????
Post by: fathornet on April 15, 2003, 04:10:00 PM: tell me more aboout the yellow jacket richie vac pump please. I've heard alot of this particular pump. Supposedly pulls safrole at 65C, ketone at 100C, well thats the best performance i've seen here on the hive.
i'd imagine lower distillation temps reduce the thermal decomposition too.
please hive bees comment on this miracle vac pump, if any of you have experience with it.
What i'd like to know it the performance bees are getting out of this ie distillation temp of safrole and ketone.
Is this pump available at refrigerant supply?
Price of this pump?
thanx bees ;)
Title: The vacuum connection!
Post by: wyndowlicker on April 15, 2003, 04:13:00 PM: For all your yellowjacket needs![url]http://acsource.com :P