The Vespiary

The Hive => Chemistry Discourse => Topic started by: Drug_Phreak on April 19, 2004, 06:18:00 AM

Title: Hacking Luminol
Post by: Drug_Phreak on April 19, 2004, 06:18:00 AM

What chemical if any would prevent Luminol from detecting blood? I know that Luminol reacts with the iron in hemoglobin, but that's about all I really know about it. Anyone know? I'm just interested in finding out what chemical can do this and I'm not planning on doing anything illegal.

Title: ok.... http://www.chm.uri.edu/chempeople/eboton...
Post by: ApprenticeCook on April 19, 2004, 09:24:00 AM

ok....

http://www.chm.uri.edu/chempeople/ebotonjicdir/luminol.html (http://www.chm.uri.edu/chempeople/ebotonjicdir/luminol.html)

http://science.howstuffworks.com/luminol1.htm (http://science.howstuffworks.com/luminol1.htm)

http://www.deakin.edu.au/forensic/Chemical%20Detective/Luminol_test.htm (http://www.deakin.edu.au/forensic/Chemical%20Detective/Luminol_test.htm)

search for it, quicker than hurting bees brains on the subject. Found those in 10s on google, try it....
"Luminol and blood reaction"

Title: wouldnt say you will have
Post by: embezzler on April 19, 2004, 09:54:00 PM

much luck though luminol is vey sensitive and it is more likely to get a false posative (from animal blood or something) than a false negative. why would you want to do this?? the best way to stop a crime scene is to contaminate it beyond the threshold of legal standards. if they cant submit the forensic evidence they cant charge you with anything derived directly from it. luminol is only a presumptive test anyway though so that is not the test that will get you in trouble

Title: Thanks ApprenticeCook, but I've looked thru...
Post by: Drug_Phreak on April 20, 2004, 01:27:00 AM

Thanks ApprenticeCook, but I've looked thru those already. The thing is I don't even know where to start and I was hoping that some bees here would have the necessary biochemistry experience to at least steer me in the right direction. Good info Embezzler... for someone that wants to commit a crime. I'm merely experimenting... I love a challenge. It sure is sensitive... I read that it can detect blood at 1 PPM. Damn... maybe I should forget about this.   :(

Title: If Luminol reacts with iron, why not just...
Post by: M3Psych on April 20, 2004, 01:31:00 AM

If Luminol reacts with iron, why not just dissolve a large quantity of iron (from OTC iron pills) in a solution and drench the entire surrounding area?

Title: (luminol)here is how to make it
Post by: embezzler on April 20, 2004, 02:10:00 AM

helps to have things for experimentation...


0.1g 3-amino-phtalhydrazide an 5g sodium carbonate in 100ml h20.
before use 0.7g sodium perborate is added.


it also doesnt interfere with dna investigations

Title: M3Psych that's kind of my train of thought...
Post by: Drug_Phreak on April 20, 2004, 03:32:00 AM

M3Psych that's kind of my train of thought right now, but instead... doing the opposite... covering the area with something that would prevent the detection of the iron. What chemicals would do this? Well... I'm off to do some experimenting.  :)

Title: I don't think you're going to find such a...
Post by: M3Psych on April 20, 2004, 06:38:00 PM

I don't think you're going to find such a substance, Luminol is _extremely_ reactive. This would be akin to trying to trick a UA screening by changing the metabolites instead of just fucking up the test itself (by dilution, etc).

Title: dilution is not really a good idea in this case
Post by: embezzler on April 20, 2004, 07:29:00 PM

safferstein says it can detect blood diluted 10,000,000 times, how about trying to change the fe to the fe3 state think one of the sites said it wouldnt react with that?