any pill challenge!

[hellman]

So where were we,

Oh, yeh, the perpetual cycle of re-updateing techniques and solvents to catch the elusive chamelion, that we call Pseudo Epherdrine,

So I wrote something awhile back, offering you a small crack for you to sneak through, to see past this haze of confusion,.

Post 466612

(hellman: "hellman's Universal Cure", Stimulants)

But, did anyone try it, maybee,
did anyone say that it didn't work, no,
Was it's simplicity a major factor in being so unjustly recieved?
Probably,.
I guess probably because, in fact it does, and too well,.

So i have further streamlined it, and now it  is another controversial  offering, for you,.


Theory:?

I could beat my head against the wall, I could cry a tear for myself, amongst an ocean i would cry for everyone else, so..

1) -Crush any pill(s) into a jar
2)-Add a strong basic solution in vast molar excess
3)-Filter
4)-Add tolune
5)-Gass

"But this is stupidly simple, and ah, dossn;t use weirdass solvents, co-solvents, or other bizarre stuff,"


Well you see kids. the toluene at the end is laden with the feebase Pseudo, and a lot of other crazy non-polar adulterants,
Conventional crystallizing(ie by adding hcl, and boiling off) won't work, you will always end up with a gum,.

the gassing is where the purification happens, and it will leave you with minimal, if any byproducts, as the hcl gas will only form a salt with the Pseudo,.As long as you have excess toluene, then this will work for you everytime,


Enjoy yourselves,

hm

And yes, the histamine's do require an acetone wash, if thats the type you get,.

hm

[hoffman]

No doubt this will meet with headon abrubt responses,

Chemically speaking,though,.. I can't see a problem with it,
however, alot of people, might not see this gold,. this action, the {insert whistle} concrete science of it,.


Your a strange fucker,
but this is solid work,

good for you,.

hoff

[weaz1dls]

SWIW can report this is true thus far in regaurds to generic 120's and reds locally. Sodium carb on the 120's seems to need either time or a kick in the ass to get high yields.  So a mixture of 70/30 sodium carb/sodium hydrox mix has been SWIW mix lately. Xylene ladened pulls are vacc filtered washed with brine then gassed with a simple settup utilizing an aspirator to draw then dispose of hcl gas through the xylene. one rextl later and the results have been the cleanest in a long while with such little effort.

SWIW had forgoten the bee that suggested this not long ago, and has repeatedly had intentions of looking it up but always getting sidetracked. So before SWIW forgets again, Congrats Hellman on keeping it simple. A toast,  to clean gear, until we meet the gassing gaack!

[SQUIDIPPY]

A/B’ing and “gassing” back is probably the oldest known extraction method around, next to a straight water pull. It has over the years proven to be generally effective. If this method is working for you, you obviously have not yet encountered, Orange gak II.

[isopropylcumshot]

modern pills dont allow such simplicity

recently this bee attempted to simply base and pull some goodies,

the pill mass turned into a liquidy wax glob that wouldn't give up more than 2 of 8 grams avail:  and that was three good pull attempts.


an alky pull and evap MUST preceed the basing \extraction !

peace..

[sublevel]

currently using 60-40 (carb, hydrox) with good results on 120s.

iso what did you use to mix base with pm?

i found that using iso,tone or methlylated spirits would plasticise mass at times. try using tetra or other chlorinated spray.

squidippy, havent encountered the orange yet, I believe that tetra puts a leash on this bastard inform if incorrect.

[Scottydog]

currently using 60-40 (carb, hydrox) with good results on 120s.

Sublevel, considering that you are using tetra, sodium carbonate and NaOH. Is this basically the tetra trap without the necessity of boiling?

Do you use heat with this method?

The amount of water added beeing the same as with the tetra trap?

The tetra trap is a great method, just would bee so much nicer without the necessity of boiling flammable solvents. I mean a coffee pot can't last forever...right?  

[weaz1dls]

Sorry, here are the steps SWIW didn't include inprevious post.

Pills are finely ground
ISO is added and mixed
Denatured is then added more mixing (slow mixing!)
    ISO/Denat=20/80
Let settle and sep of top fluid
Repeat 2 times and collect gups in large ziplocks (C.Y.A.)
Suctionfilter pulls through 2"x1/2" Charm plug topped
  by loosely placed cotton.  All prewet.
Alch is evaped down til just skinning takes about 4 minutes
Poured into10-12 times it's volume Tone.
Vacc filter
Mix then with the Naco3 NaOH
Add xylene in a wide bottom container
Spray/mist water with stirring (slowly we aint whipping cream now!)
Depending on heat generated with water adition the third xylene pull may be treated to a tour of the micro.
Then the steps in prev post.

 Total time is about 4-5 hours stretched out over a day or two.

First time swiw did this SWIW was fearfull of the orange beasts.  Only to find they had indeed been out foxed along the way.  Swiw does realize this is extremely wasteful in regaurds to the volume of Tone and when able does distil it and filter it through rocksalt/mag-sulf for recycling. But at $7.?? far big can, not often!

[Prepuce]

Hellman,

SWIP tried your previous suggestion (using a large volume of water) on some generic 120s. He found that it took a LOT of water to get to the point where the jelly separated from the rest. Starting with about 1oz of GUPS, SWIP ended up with about two quarts of solution. He then based with TSP and extracted with toluene. Because of the large volume of H2O he wasn't comfortable that he had extracted all of the available FB, but for 1oz of GUPS he didn't want to use 500 ml of toluene, so he shook hard and let it settle, then did a second pull. AFter gassing to get back to the HCl, SWIP was left with a small pile of powder that appeared to be less than 1/4g, and bit off-color tending towards beige.

All in all it appears the technique could work, but yeilds were poor and the result wasn't very clean. SWIP would like to ditch the solvent boils, etc., too, so he's wondering if he missed something.

PP

[isopropylcumshot]

iso used lye and xylene
iso used too wet of isopropyl alky he thinks

[hoffman]

I'm not hearing alot of talk about gassing,
Yes, this method won't work unless you gass,.

If it won't get rid of the Orange(II) Gaak, then think about it a different way,---loookk  harder-----

So you now have the ability to isolate pure Pseudo and Orange 2 gak, Now it couln't bee that hard to find, a solution, to seperate these two,.


Of course, this is,after all,
only a suggestion,

hoff

[sublevel]

very similar to tetra trap except prior to basing we
clean pill mass with xylene three times (boil stir settle decant)

let mass dry then base, chlorinated solvent added then three xylene pulls ( which are heated slightly.)

solvent boils are needed still,  no water added

currently using a product that contains methylene chloride & chlorinated hydrocarbon works very well

[Master_Alchemist]

This is slightly off topic, but related nevertheless.
I am trying to find out EXACTLY what is in a certain brand of tabs. Most Australian punters will know this from experience;
Suzy Hcl:60mg, Tripolidine Hydrochloride:2.5mg & Lactose.
This is what the packet says, Im certain Povidone is lurking but im unsure about PolyEthyleneGlycol. I have the antidote for them regardless, but it is always best to know your enemy!    Can anyone educate me?

[suss]

Can someone explain to me why the sudo only moves into the top NP in the tetra trap, and not the tetra as well? Is it cause the sudo is less soluble in chlorinated hydrocarbons, or is it cause the tetra is too full of other gakks? or what?

Cheers.

[suss]

Geez,

How did the tests you mentioned in the "hellman's universal cure" thread go?

[geezmeister]

My first foray into this extraction technique tried to extract pseudo from some Zyrtec D tabs. The writeup was not very precise on the amount of water to use, or the amount of water one might expect to use, and I was ill equipped for the project I undertook as I soon found myself working with about a dozen liters. The Zyrtec D has a coating that just would not give up. It could not be filtered out, and would not settle. I did extract some very clean pseudo but the yield was very small compared to other methods I have employed.

I am of the opinion that one really has to acquire the right equipment to do this technique at any significant scale. I found the water needed was rather cumbersome, actually, and the benefits obtainable by other means. Not that I always used the other means. This thread was the key to adapting some of the methods I use frequently in a way to avoid the orange gakks and still avoid the water. I am still playing with the methods, which involve gassing for the salt form among other things, and incorporating washes of the nonpolar, freebase pseudo-laden solvent-- something that my fondness for extracting with hot naptha did not permit all that well.

The time to extraction is shorter, yields are good, and the product is pseudo HCl.

There are many ways to skin this cat. This is one of them, perhaps. Its a matter of being accustomed to the method and being equipped to use it at the scale you are accustomed to working.

[hoffman]

A point on yield,

Hoff's replicated hellman's proceedure,
and also noticed the color changes he was talking about, whilst the pseudo is being basified overnight, it goes through a few colour changes, a blue, then a gray, then a yellow, over a period of 12 hours, I extracted in the grey phase, and got a good yield, I wonder, if letting it base longer, will doing something more to the yield, by further ripping free the pseudo molecule,

interesting proceedure,

Also tried it without gassing,

Miserable failure,

hoff

[hellman]

Whooah baby, such a golden thread going catagorically into the night,??
Please#!, I should hope not?
-
So, thankyou all, each and everyone of your for your more than kind, and factual responses,.Since then we have moved a little further,,.....

and speaking of this, I have great news for you all, yes,
All of you,..
the serious ones that squeak and lurk,...
to the ones that risk fate with every key stroke, beep.

Grind,Basify,Extract,Gass
(a true 3 step classic!)

It works,
But, there is a problem,.....
You will have to learn how to gass,

All 'Aus' bees can buy their cacl2, and hcl from the hardware store, to produce the gass.

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/equipment/calcium.hcl.generator.html

So I guess it's time to start gassing,...

Ironically the end product, is completely clean, cleaner than I had ever seen,

Cheers all