4-MAR possibilities?

[fuse]

Not Entirely sure if this is the correct forum. but since the closest i can classify 4-MAR(U4EUH, 4methylaminorex) as is a stim.. we will give it a shot.

In the newbie forum TheMaster posted about possible new precursors for Cocaine Synthesis(Sorry for the lack of a link to the post) In any event.. his question/hypothesis was incredibly incorrect... however he raised an interesting topic... and i quote...

"The first one I am referring to is the medication-Cylert a.k.a. Pemoline. Which is the perfect precursor for 4-methylaminorex."

Im curious, Does anyone have any information on the medication Cylert? i was under the impression that pemoline was no longer prescribed in the U.S. however it seems im incorrect..

I took a quick peek at one of my mothers books... (shes a RN) the 'Nursing '99 Drug Handbook' (these books are actually pretty damn useful.. however this one is a few years outdated..)

It states:
Pemoline
Brand Name: Cylert, Cylert Chewable
Controlled Substance Schedule IV

Action
Unknown. Probably promotes nerve impulse transmission by releasing stored norepinephrine from nerve terminals in the brain. Main sites of activity appear to be cerebral cortex and the reticular activating system.

Indications & Dosage
Attention Deficit Disorder with Hyperactivity

etc.. etc... ANYWAYS does anyone have any first hand experience with the pills (tabs? caps? whatever they may be) any idea what kind of binders may reside in these devilish buggers? how hard would it be to seperate pem from whatever gakkish gunk is in these?

4-MAR has always been a substance i have been interested in.. from my (albeit limited) study of 4-MAR it seems pemoline would be the ideal precursor. am i correct in this assumption? would Cylert be a viable way to obtain pemoline?

i dunno.. again.. my brains just throwing ideas out there looking for something to back it up. any ideas?

[wareami]

Never took cylert!
But here is the merck listing...

Monograph Number:  7150
Title:  Pemoline
CAS Registry Number:  2152-34-3
CAS Name:  2-Amino-5-phenyl-4(5H)-oxazolone
Additional Names:  phenoxazole;  phenylisohydantoin;  phenylpseudohydantoin;  azoxodone;  PIO
Manufacturers' Codes:  LA-956;  YH-1
Trademarks:  Azoksodon;  Cylert (Abbott);  Deltamine;  Hyton Asa (Pharmacia);  Kethamed (Medo-Chem);  Nitan (Teva);  Pioxol;  Pondex (Chinoin);  Senior (Stroschein);  Sigmadyn (Lipha);  Stimul (Medinova);  Tradon (Beiersdorf);  Volital (L.A.B.)
Molecular Formula:  C9H8N2O2
Molecular Weight:  176.17. 
Percent Composition:  C 61.36%, H 4.58%, N 15.90%, O 18.16%
Literature References:  Prepn:  W. Traube, R. Ascher, Ber. 46, 2077 (1913); L. Schmidt, H. Scheffler, US 2892753 (1959 to Boehringer, Ing.).  Prepn of magnesium hydroxide mixture, originally thought to be a chelate complex:  W. E. Lange et al., J. Pharm. Sci. 51, 477 (1962); B. H. Candon, M. Chessin, US 3108045 (1963 to Purdue Frederick).  CNS stimulant activity:  L. Schmidt, Arzneimittel-Forsch. 6, 423 (1956).  Efficacy in minimal brain dysfunction in hyperkinetic children:  C. K. Connors et al., Psychopharmacologia 26, 321 (1972); J. G. Page et al., J. Learn. Dis. 7, 498 (1974).  Toxicity data:  E. W. Schafer, Toxicol. Appl. Pharmacol. 21, 315 (1972).  Review:  A. T. Dren, R. S. Janicki, in Pharmacological and Biochemical Properties of Drug Substances vol. 1, M. E. Goldberg, Ed. (Am. Pharm. Assoc., Washington, DC, 1977) pp 33-65.
Properties:  Crystals, mp 256-257° (dec).  Practically insol in water, ether, acetone, dil hydrochloric acid.  Sol in propylene glycol (1%); in hot alcohol.  LD50 orally in rats:  500 mg/kg (Schafer).
Melting point:  mp 256-257° (dec)
Toxicity data:  LD50 orally in rats:  500 mg/kg (Schafer)

Derivative Type:  Magnesium hydroxide mixture
CAS Registry Number:  18968-99-5
Additional Names:  Magnesium pemoline
Manufacturers' Codes:  Abbott 30400
Trademarks:  Tamilan (Gador)

NOTE:  This is a controlled substance (stimulant):  21 CFR, 1308.14.
Therap-Cat:  CNS stimulant.

[Organikum]

One of the bigger misunderstandings in chemistry is the idea that compounds which like almost similar can be easily transformed into oneanother. This is very often not true.

A look at the pemoline and the 4-MAR molecules shows that you have an "=O" where you would like to have a "-CH3", a methylgroup. How to replace the "=O" by "-CH3" is something whats not known to me and I have strong doubts if this is possible without destroying the entire molecule, but I may be wrong.
What I can say for sure is that removal of the "=O" is not possible by neither the Birch nor by an HI reduction. It might be possible by catalytic hydrogenation though - maybe.
The possibility of a selective methylation lateron is a question of its own.

Turning one controlled substance into another is something very unerotic in my eyes anyways.

The days of pills seem to be counted, learn some chemistry or get yourself some antidepressives prescribed to come over the methwithdrawal without getting seriously traumatized.

[Rhodium]

Synthesis of Pemoline

(https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/pemoline.html)

[TheMaster]

It sure is by golly. I get extremely ostile when on Eu4eUh so this buddy of mine in MENSA who took my Pemoline I had been saving up for damn near a year because the year before I asked him about this being a viable route to 4-methylamoniorex and he said it is and if I happen to come upon any Pemoline to at least have three or four grams' worth and if I drop it off to him he will of returned the next day with the ICE.

And so I went to a seperate psychiatrist and got prescribed this for the better part of a year. So anyway I just prior to Hanakkuh dropped the pills off and he swung by the next evening with a bag full of ICE. Had he not of seen how I am on the stuff he would've shown me how its done, but I fucked up and almost got in a fight at this 24 hour place to shoot billiards.

So I'm back to re-stocking my self for another roun as he said he would do it for me anytime so long as I as I did then split the weight with him. But he said he would feel too responsible if he showed me what's the secret and I was to end up starting World War Five since it does make me very adrenalized and confrontational.

But this is definitely a viable precursor to 4-MAR. This I know for a fact.

[Rhodium]

I'm sure your mensa guy just traded you one drug for the other. You cannot substitute that carbonyl by a methyl just like that.




Also, I don't find it too clever to voluntarily ingest a drug you know makes you hostile...

[fuse]

Organikum... Indeed i see what your getting at... But i was just wondering about the possibilities.. im no chemist by any means. ive never done a meth 'cook'. i just enjoy theoretical possibilities and such..

"The days of pills seem to be counted, learn some chemistry or get yourself some antidepressives prescribed to come over the methwithdrawal without getting seriously traumatized."

I dont know about learning chemistry. But at the very least im familiarizing myself with the basics. Im poor. Cant afford School. Just downloaded "Mcgraw - Hill - Organic Chemisty 4th Ed". Research on my free time yknow?

I am on Anti Depressants. Ive been 'severely clinically depressed' for roughly 3/4 of my life. OCD, SAD, GAD, Insomnia, etc.. ive been diagnosed and rediagnosed. Alls i need is some pot and im good.

And i dunno about the methwithdrawal. i dont do meth. I did meth, Once. For a week. but just to learn the metric system. (heh) But seriously.. meth seemed like a substance i could see myself abusing. So i didnt. no withdrawals.. i doubt the amount or length of time was enough to even come close to withdrawal symptoms.

But thats not the point of this post.. Forgive me if i misunderstood your post. And thank you for the chemistry knowledge you did bestow.. But im just interested in possibilities. What ifs. Solving the unasked questions... Finding out how to go about it.

[fuse]

Orgy caused me to be confrontational, TheMaster made me hopeful, and rhodium smashed my dreams! lol. well it was worth a shot.. And TheMaster i agree with rhodium... why in the world would you even ingest a substance that makes you angry/confrontational/pissy/whatever. I could go to the Police Station and get the same effects...

anyways... Well shoot. some real ice would be nice. but most of the time life doesnt wanna give up the good shit that easily. So whatevers clever.

Anyways... Anyone had experience with Cylert(pemoline) or any of the other brand names..? generally medications/prescriptions/etc arent too hard to come by.. if its worth the trouble i might give it a shot yknow.

[wareami]

To seek treatment for what ails ya.

As for

I dont know about learning chemistry. But at the very least im familiarizing myself with the basics. Im poor. Cant afford School. Just downloaded "Mcgraw - Hill - Organic Chemisty 4th Ed". Research on my free time yknow?

If you read and absorb 1/3 of what is offered here at this site alone and learn to put into practice a fraction of what was learned, you'll have the equivalent of a ¼ million dollar scholarship.
This isn't to say that this site is a replacement for the academic or scholastic environments, but if it's all ya got...make the best of it!

[barkingburro]

[fuse]

mr burro. well.. there is a synth or two on rhodiums site (if im correct..) But i understand where you are coming from.
The synth that i believe was written by eleusis(SP?) calls for PPA Hcl which is not exactly the easiest substance to come by (for me at least). and Cyanogen Bromide(again.. i believe) which is not exactly the easiest stuff to deal with. plus the potential for death and such..

Thats why i was aiming for a relatively easier (I.e. Not so potentially deadly, not so nitpicky) synthesis.. If anyone has ideas.. give this thread some love!

Also.. i asked before.. but no response.. so here goes again.. Anyone had experience with Cylert or various other Brand Names for Pemoline? its used to treat generally ADHD and such.. But whats it like? worth the trouble of gettin a script?

Peas.

[embezzler]

would have a less potent negative charge than the carbonyl group and be more akin to the methyl group in 4-mar? that may be more feasable than the exchange of the ch3 for the carbonyl bond, maybe it might have binding power somewhere between the methly group and the c=o.

then again that molecule probably already exists

[Rhodium]

No, a molecule containing a =N-C-OH grouping is not stable (it is very similar to a halfway-hydrolyzed amide bond), if the =O group of pemoline would be reduced to -OH it would hydrolyze to form mandelic acid.

And for non-toxic 4-MAR syntheses, you have obviously not useed TFSE, or you would have found these threads:

Post 212038

(Rhodium: "4-Methylaminorex Synth w/o CNBr", Novel Discourse)

Post 354295

(Bandil: "trans-4-MAR synth w/o cyanogenbromide writeup!", Methods Discourse)

Post 458588

(Bandil: "One pot synthesis of 4-methylaminorex", Novel Discourse)