The Hive => Stimulants => Topic started by: diapermind on June 22, 2004, 11:34:00 PM
Title: diapermind's Wonderful MBRP Recipe!
Post by: diapermind on June 22, 2004, 11:34:00 PM
(I can't believe i'm actually finally doing this.) (Scale-up as needed , this just mainly shows how it's done.)
1.) Cut the strikers off of 2-boxes (=100 packs) of paper-matches.
2.) Put them (the strikers) in an empty-clean jar (I use the small "instant-coffee" kind).
3.) Cover with muriatic acid (hardware-store hcl); let soak for 12 hours.
4.) Pour everything into a bigger jar (like a big pickle or mason jar).
5.) Fill up with cold tap water ; After the dark-red strips settle to the bottom (within a few seconds) , pour off the water/gunk down the toilet (or wherever).
6.) Repeat step 5 over and over until all the paper-gunk is gone (around 10 or more times - you'll be able to tell when you're finished).
6 1/2.) Carefully pour off all the water.
7.) You now have oh-so beautiful red-strips all by themselves.
8.) Cover the strips with a strong (25% to 50%) lye/water solution.
9.) Let sit for 24-hours.
10.) Fill with water ; let the red settle (this may take a minute) ; Pour off the water.
11.) Repeat step 10, four to five or more times.
12.) Scoop out the red-stuff with a spoon (or whatever).
13.) Put it onto a newspaper to dry for a day.
14.) You may pre-fire when ready, Griddley (or not).
On my next post, I get to ask a question.
Title: *if* that works, i suggest several washes with
Post by: fierceness on June 22, 2004, 11:51:00 PM
*if* that works, i suggest several washes with acetone also. There are a lot of glues that need to be removed and HCl and NaOH may not cut it.
Title: Try Methanol for a Shorter Soak
Post by: ChemoSabe on June 23, 2004, 04:30:00 AM
Warm methanol will do the same trick after about a 15 minute to half hour soak with some good shaking in a jar or large sep funnel.
Follow that with a good acetone rinse or two then lamp or computer heat fan dry and viola. Embee Arrpee ready for reaction. If it solidifies into a unified hunk after drying it's still glue bound so pulverize with small screen strainer or pound with rubber mallet on anvil-like surface in 3 coffee filters (or use makeshift mortar and pestle - like test tube mortar and shot glass pestle for example) If rock busting is ever needed resoak pulverized matter again with warm methanol, decant off the alc and then follow by tone rinses to get that last perisitant glue out.
No hcl stink or skin burns needed.
But bee careful warming the methanol. 110f (not c) is enough for good quickened glue dissolving.
Title: No glues
Post by: diapermind on June 23, 2004, 05:57:00 AM
(lol) There are no glues or anything like that in any of swims dreams
You'll be thanking diapermind after you give it a try I'm out
Title: Re: (lol) There are no glues or anything like...
Post by: fierceness on June 23, 2004, 06:06:00 AM
(lol) There are no glues or anything like that in any of swims dreams
doesn't hurt to be extra cautious, does it? =)
Title: Better than alcohols
Post by: diapermind on June 23, 2004, 06:09:00 AM
The acid and the base pulverize EVERYTHING compared to anything acetone & alcohols do (Swim's tried them)!
Title: Basic solutions
Post by: mr_pyrex on June 23, 2004, 06:21:00 AM
Letting red phosphorus come in contact with bases is a no-no. I don't have the text handy as it was in a library text sometime back that I came across the information that stated it has negative effects on the red phosphorus. I would give you the exact effect if I could remember it but I don't so maybe another elder bee like rhodium or wizard x could fill in the blank. But I can tell you without any doubt that it has the basic effect of rendering the red phosphorus pretty much useless for reactions. That is why you are suppose to filter it out of the post reaction mixture before basing the reaction solution. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, hopefully you didn't expose too much to the sodium hydroxide solution. Muriatic acid is fine. Sulfuric acid should also be avoided as it will have degrading effects on red p too....slower but nonetheless negative effects. The reason I mention the sulfuric acid is because I was to my knowledge the first one to suggest it's use way back when I was tinkering with mbrp, back around 98 or so...so I feel it is my responsiblity somewhat to make sure that newer bees are made aware that my past suggestion of using it to clean mbrp was not productive but rather counterproductive. Good Luck. Pyrex out or running out of lab red P ;-)
Title: Cover the acid/strikers
Post by: diapermind on June 23, 2004, 06:22:00 AM
I should also mention that swim (in his dream) covers the acid-solution-jar when it soaks overnight (with a non metal lid).
Title: The Phos Works
Post by: diapermind on June 23, 2004, 06:25:00 AM
Title: To React (in a dream): Mix (in a ...
Post by: diapermind on June 23, 2004, 06:35:00 AM
To React (in a dream):
Mix (in a test-tube)Using either a bamboo-stir-stick or a glass-rod: 3/4 gram (my) mbrp ; to 1.25 grams (moist-wrung-out) iodine crystals from tincture and 2 drops h20.
Stir until it reacts (about 1 to 2 minutes later WOW!!) (Just to prove it works).
Title: there are much faster and easier ways
Post by: CharlieBigpotato on June 23, 2004, 04:34:00 PM
shaking a big plastic jar with some glass marbles; alcohol; and the strikers will denude 1000 or more with a mere 12 oz. of solvent; in about 3 minutes. an acetone wash follows that to remove remaining goo.
the dried globuole of red will have inert glass-like particals that won't screw-up a dream, though, when weighing out the mbrp, it is prudent to consider it only 1/2 rp.
Title: bah the old red phos topic
Post by: Buckshot on June 24, 2004, 02:33:00 AM
Well, it seems we all have our methods to get the red phos off the strikers. And that's ok. A few things I'd like to add. -After the red phos comes off the striker there is another layer of gunk before the paper layers become exposed. Most methods of aggitation (scraping/marbles) will remove that glue layer also which is a bad thing. Also heavy agitiation like that gets more bits of cardboard in your mix. -Soaking the strikers in strong Hcl before the red is taken off will always produce those mushy little bits of cardboard. The Hcl removes the cardboard but still doesn't actually take the red off the striker! Furthermore, removing the cardboard while still leaving the red on that little fine strip ensures all glues need to be delt with. Save the Hcl soak until you have a RP powder. -Moreover, diluted alcohol works best aim for 70% alcohol (which is easy to buy), dilute your alc with H2O. Get a TRANSPARENT container like a plastic pop bottle, add the diluted alcohol and strikers and shake GENTLY, stopping every few seconds and using the transparent container to observe progress. In minute or two the rep phosphorus is all off the strikers and if you shake gently and observe whats happening with a clear bottle, you can stop before the second glue layer get disolved to any signifigant degree. -Pure water should never be added to red phos it is the major cause "floaties" if you need to add water for any reason dilute it with alcohol. -Finally, as a test I always let final red phos dry undisturbed, then it should be a loose powder NOT A CHUNK that needs to be broken up.
Title: Agree with Pyrex
Post by: SHORTY on June 24, 2004, 10:45:00 PM
Red phosphorous releases hypophosphorous and phosphorus acid when it is in water. There for soaking it in a basic solution will neutralize any acid which is released during your soak. The rp will still work but i bet it won't work as good or as long as it would without the lye soak.
Also, prefiring rp is not a very good idea either. All rp has a small amount of white phosphorous in it which is listed as a contaminant if one were to purchase it. It is this wp that makes rp react so strongly the first time it is used. By prefiring the rp you are wasting all the wp which could have been used in the actual reaction.
Title: Ladies and Gentlemen,
Post by: diapermind on June 25, 2004, 12:57:00 AM
Thank you for your replys. I like the different methods (in theory), but have always had problems with alcs & tone (but I'll still perhaps give 'er a try (these new ones).
I like mine totally though!
It works; it's easy; it swirls.
I can't keep out the Lye, because it gets rid of contaminants to a noticible degree. Since no-one has shown (with any good explanation/documentation) that Lye and Red Phos (in this given example) should be kept apart, I shall continue as is. Adios.
Title: Safety (MSDS) data for phosphorus, red
Post by: SHORTY on June 25, 2004, 04:22:00 AM
Safety (MSDS) data for phosphorus, red
General
Synonyms: red phosphorus, yellow phosphorus Molecular formula: P CAS No: 7723-14-0 EC No:
Stable. Combustible. Incompatible with strong oxidizing agents, strong bases. Light and heat sensitive.
Toxicology Irritant. Contact with eyes may cause irritation or burns. Typical TLV/TWA 0.1 mg/m3. Typical STEL 0.3 mg/m3.
Transport information UN No 1338. Hazard class 4.1.
Title: Thanks
Post by: mr_pyrex on June 25, 2004, 05:40:00 AM
Let me say Thank You, Shorty for taking the time to locate and post at least the basis for what I was trying to explain. I knew that the info was correct I just didn't have the time to locate the specific resource necessary to back it up. Pyrex out of textbooks ;-)
Title: depends
Post by: gsus on June 25, 2004, 06:29:00 AM
there have been a couple posts on the historical production of red P, quoting textbooks. many textbooks give the final step in its original manufacture as boiling with NaOH to get rid of unreacted white P. and i've boiled it in strong and stronger aqueous NaOH solutions.
high concentrations of NaOH give phosphine, etc. pretty fast. phosphine evolution is a pretty obvious thing. lower concentrations don't react fast enough to worry about.
Title: Why would you want to remove unreacted WP?
Post by: SHORTY on June 26, 2004, 05:07:00 AM
Thats one contaminant that i would not want to remove since it reacts with the iodine and increases the concentration of HI from the getgo.
To me soaking rp in a lye solution for 24 hours makes no sense because it will only weaken the rp and with no clear explanations as to what it removes then why wait for a day to get a less reactive chemical?
Title: The Lye removes contaminants.
Post by: diapermind on July 26, 2004, 05:43:00 AM
The Lye removes contaminants. Swim knows this (clearly).
If I want RP, I see nothing wrong with GOOD MBRP (with glass), even if it doesn't have 'white phos in it'.
THIS WORKS VERY GOOD FOR SWIM (VERY GOOD INDEED). Swim knows he has found a reliable way regardless of this current scientific debate (however, if it's truly not compatable with lye -IN THIS GIVEN RECIPE-, then please tell me why & what dangerous by-products would there bee at the end. Thanks.
Title: do you want extra base
Post by: CharlieBigpotato on July 26, 2004, 11:12:00 AM
in an effort to make an acid? probably harmless if you rinse it well enough. lye is good at telling you if its still there; by feel; slippery, soapy feel; takes almost endless washing to eliminate; why bother, knowing (i hope, by now) that it isn't necessary? btw, swim has found H2SO4 to bee likewise not necessary.
glue is the crap to worry about. what the fuck else is on the pads that is problematic? paper scraps, i suppose, could suggest a lye cleaning. yet easily avoidable.
Title: Ye must!
Post by: diapermind on July 27, 2004, 12:52:00 AM
For my recipe: It (Lye-soak) is necessary to get rid of contaminants. Also, according to my recipe , the water gets rid of remaining lye (Trust swim: It works great in dreamland rxns).
Title: Would a very weak solution of HF work to ...
Post by: Lestat on July 27, 2004, 04:13:00 AM
Would a very weak solution of HF work to dissolve the glass from MBRP as soon as the caseine glue has been removed by the HCl and MEK washes, or would HF attack RP?
I can't remember off the top of my head if HF attacks RP, and I can't really be arsed to look this one up as I'm tired and having to navigate through everything with my tab key, as my mouse just packed up today. :(