The Vespiary

The Hive => Stimulants => Topic started by: 12cheman12 on June 08, 2004, 03:06:00 AM

Title: Mineral Turp Soak
Post by: 12cheman12 on June 08, 2004, 03:06:00 AM
in a procedure where it calls for a mineral turps soak for 12 hours can it be replaced by a turps boil for a couple of mins?
Title: Probably not
Post by: embezzler on June 08, 2004, 03:07:00 PM
the gaaks take their time to release and product or even binders so the quick boiling probably would not be sufficient.

You will probably get some effect but i doubt that it would be as effective as the longer soaking, it will leave far more impurities in the pill

Title: soak means soak
Post by: geezmeister on June 08, 2004, 05:46:00 PM
SOAK means SOAK. Sometimes time helps, and you have to give a solvent some time to work. Just increasing the heat doesn't mean it will obtain the desired effect in less time. I always found a soak worked best to remove povidone, for instance. A boil didn't do the same trick, but a four to six hour soak in the same solvent would get the povidone.

Take your time. Your haste might be counterproductive here.

Title: Turps Boil
Post by: Chewbacca on June 09, 2004, 01:04:00 PM
Geez is correct to assert that haste under these circumstances is counter productive.
In my experience, boiling any sort of pill matter in turps will quickly reduce the mass to an unworkable congealed mess. I fail to see the difficulty in soaking rather than boiling

Title: Shouldn't it bee ...
Post by: callen on June 19, 2004, 01:53:00 AM
Wouldn't it Bee "Gum Turpentine" that SWIY should be using?There was much chatter in posts on the Hive some time ago that gum turpentine...not mineral turps...is what the woed 'Turps" is referring to.My friend A.L.F. sez,"I boil the crushed pill mass in gum turpentine for 15-minutes, filter and dry...boil the pill mass in TCM for 15-minutes
filter and dry...then extract the sudo.hcl with ice cold Etoh...filter out the solids and evaporate the Etoh to recover the Sudo.hcl. Nice pinwheels, and results in as good as it gets...by the book procedure...every time." :)

Title: hmm id like to know if its gum turps instead...
Post by: 12cheman12 on June 19, 2004, 04:36:00 AM
hmm id like to know if its gum turps instead of mineral turps. Swim has only been using mineral turps.
Will a Tetra wash replace the use of a mineral turps soak?
Who knows what wash/boil will do the same as a turps soak?
Title: The turps soak...
Post by: wareami on June 19, 2004, 05:05:00 AM
The turps soak is known to be effective at removing povidone.
Tetra(TCE aka PCE) has been effective at removing povidone as well as other polymers and antihistamines via The Egull Method.
Tetra has also been instrumental at disabling the DryMatrix Formulations when used as suggested in The IDEA Method.
The Slanted Egull(TCE/JD) has been effective at removing Orange Gaaks I and II in addition to all the above mentioned inactives.

Title: Gum Turp
Post by: former_chemist on June 19, 2004, 09:59:00 PM
Gum Turp is used to remove povidone not mineral turp.  This uses the premise that like dissolves like.  Both have long polymeric change and they seem to have an affinity.  This has been shown to work in practice be several bees.  Mineral turps may or may not remove povidone.  This depends a lot on the formulation of the mineral turps.  TCE/JD has become prefered because of the availability of these chems.  Gum Turp is expensive.
Title: rolling in the grave
Post by: geezmeister on June 21, 2004, 06:28:00 PM

Gum Turp is used to remove povidone not mineral turp



Were Placebo in his grave, I suspect he would be rolling in it. His gospel when I first joined the debate was that a soak in mineral turps would remove povidone. Conventional wisdom was that a soak in gum sprits of turpentine available in the US did not do the trick, but a soak in a turpentine substitute, made mainly of xylene and mixed turpenes, would. It did, and still does. Funny thing is a long soak in xylene without the turpenes does the same thing. Some claim a long soak in odorless mineral spirits also does the same thing, but I have never verified this.

I don't feel comfortable disagreeing with f_c at all, and he may perhaps be discussing a solvent I am unfamiliar with when he discusses "gum turps"; if he is discussing the easily found gum spririts of turpentine used to thin paint and make garages smell bad, I respectfully differ with his opinion, based on my personal experiences. Gum spirits of turpentine never seemed at all effective to me at doing anything beyond smelling the place up.



Title: Problem with chemical mixtures
Post by: former_chemist on June 21, 2004, 08:09:00 PM
That is the problem with chemical mixtures,  two cans with the exact same label can have widely varying results.  Hence different experiences by different bees.  I agree xylene works but is appearently not included in the formulations of mineral turps available to me locally.  Or was not at the time when povidone was a major problem.  The problems now seem to be of the new and better variety.