Author Topic: what does V/W mean  (Read 1409 times)

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12cheman12

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what does V/W mean
« on: June 09, 2004, 09:13:00 AM »
okai on my can of xylene it says 100% V/W xylene, now does this V/W mean volume weight something like that? and could there still be water in this. The only reason why im asking this question is all swim has done to his pill mass is boil 3 times in this and his PM weight is already down to 50% of his available pseduo! so that means his xylene absorb 50% of his pseudo. And yes there were dried epsom salts sitting in the tin to.
This isnt a stimulant question im just stating what has made me asked this question because even though it says 100% i still think there could be water in it.

Rhodium

  • Guest
Asking the wrong questions
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2004, 09:22:00 AM »
100% V/W xylene, now does this V/W mean volume weight something like that?

Does it matter?  ;)

even though it says 100% i still think there could be water in it.

I don't. The solubility of xylene in water is <0.08%.


12cheman12

  • Guest
yeah i thought the question might be a bit...
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2004, 09:28:00 AM »
yeah i thought the question might be a bit dumb but for a newbee i had to ask. But you have to understand its driving me insane lol.
All i did was 3 xylene boils and it ate half my pseudo, dont suppose u know wtf is happening? lol

former_chemist

  • Guest
Be more specific
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2004, 09:36:00 AM »
Do you mean the ground up pills lost half their weight or that you got <50% yield?

If the pills lost half their weight then it did what it was supposed to do, remove impurities.

If you only got 50% yeild then the mix may be heat activated or even NP activated to lock in the pseudo HCl.

If you were cleaning up what you thought was clean pseudo then you may have had impurities instead of pseudo.

Be more specific.

12cheman12

  • Guest
i thought i was pretty specific.
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2004, 09:53:00 AM »
i thought i was pretty specific.
"so that means his xylene absorb 50% of his pseudo."
ill explain more but.
Lets just say for arguments sake he had 1 gram of available pseudo, and the pill mass weighed 10 grams, after the xylene boils his pill mass weighed only .5 Grams. And i dont even know if all this was pseudo maybe the xylene took all the pseudo and the .5 grams left was gak the xylene doesnt dissolve.
Maybe there is Bi-Carb in the pills so when a NP goes to wash it, the NP takes the sudo away as freebase.

Scottydog

  • Guest
Carbonates in pills
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2004, 11:26:00 AM »
"Maybe there is Bi-Carb in the pills so when a NP goes to wash it, the NP takes the sudo away as freebase."

Yes Swim has seen carbonates listed as inactives on pfed boxes. Calcium carbonate? Which would also steal pseudo?

Was thinking that one sometimes has to do a NP soak or boil to remove povidone or PEG.

One wouldn't want to add store bought HCL because it contains water and would activate some gakks but what would stop a bee from soaking the GUPS in Xylene and then bubbling with dry HCL gas to nuetralize the carbonate and then filtering away the PEG or povidone after 12-24 hrs?


Osmium

  • Guest
Hot toluene and xylene will dissolve many...
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2004, 12:46:00 PM »
Hot toluene and xylene will dissolve many amine hydrochlorides.


wareami

  • Guest
Sdawg...
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2004, 04:08:00 PM »
Ibee's had some successes with charging Iso alky 91% with a few drops of HCL per 50ml alky prior to the alky soak/settling period of pillmass.
Following a polymer removal step of course!
This doesn't help in all cases primarily because all pills aren't equal...but the ones that come over more easily at pH 5 or lower, Ibee would try it.
Sometimes it helps yield wise and it's never hurt the Kidz even during the times it showed no benefit at all.


geezmeister

  • Guest
what you think is pseduo....
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2004, 04:27:00 PM »
What you think is pseudo, probably isn't. If it were all pseudo, you wouldn't be cleaning it further, right? You say you lost half of your pseudo, but what you really mean is you lost half of what you thought was pseudo.

You can cover pseudo HCL in xylene and bring the xylene to a boil without dissolving any significant amount of the pseudo HCl. You didn't lose half of your pseudo to xylene, hot or not. You had something in addition to pseudo in the mix. If pseudo HCl were that soluble in hot xylene I would have noticed yield loss associated with such boils long ago. Additionally, I have done a/b extractions of pseudo from pills after xylene boils, and without xylene or tolly boils, and have never noticed any appreciable difference in yield.

Its not the xylene. Its most likely that your pseudo isn't all pseudo.

Beyond that, you should be doing the xylene boils of the entire pills mass, not just the pseudo. If you are extracting the pseudo first, then trying to clean it with xylene boils, you are actually making your task more difficult, not easier.


former_chemist

  • Guest
Carbonate in pills
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2004, 08:44:00 PM »
The carbonate in the pills might prevent a cleanup with an NP.  Rather than locking the pseudo in it actually carries it into the NP.  If that is happening the obvious next step is to gas the NP.

Also there have been reports of newer formulations that dissolve in NP and carry away the pseudo.  Carbonates in the pill formulation would explain that.  Some of the formulations may not need carbonate, the polymers may contain sufficiently basic amines to "steal" the HCl from the pseudo and make it soluble in NP.  These things are supposed to require exposure to stomach acid before releasing the goodies.

I can see the chemical reaction when you try gassing one of these super gakks precipitating the gakk as well as the pseudo.

geezmeister

  • Guest
some trials are in order
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2004, 09:22:00 PM »
Sounds like some trials are in order here. If the object is to make the pseudo disappear into nonpolar solvents prior to another form of extraction, and the remaining gakks are intended to foil the other extractions, a nonpolar soak of the pills followed with a washing, drying, and gassing of the nonpolar solvent might yield some pseudo HCl that is cleaner than what we are extracting by the other methods.
If the premise is sound, gassing the nonpolar solvents used to soak the pill mass would improve yield by recovering some pseudo that otherwise gets discarded.

Now, to test the premise.... lets find some pills with carbonates in them.


barkingburro

  • Guest
uhm hey
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2004, 02:46:00 PM »
swibbs had a lil experience with this happening as well, heres how he approached it.
for starters even psuedo and meth hcl have some solubility in xylene, i don't know the exact numbers but i have seen it with my own eyes. its not a drastic amount, but even if at 1% over the course of 3 high volume xylene boils it will add up. hot xylene especially.
in the past swibb has done an alki extraction first instead of boiling the entire pill mass in xylene, these seems to circumvent the carbonate issue, especially if the extract is done in near anhydrous IPA. carbonates dont seem to be very soluble in IPA and by using precise measurements of teh IPA swibb got even better results. about 70mls of boiling IPA per 2.5 - 3 gs of available P/FED is swibbs ruke of thumb, applied 1/3 at a time to the pill mass.
then take the IPA and add that to the xylene and burn off the ipa. and filter. repeat boils in xylene if needed. saves xylene like this too. doing the boils in the microwave seems to have a positive effect as well, though the ipa boil off isn't something swibb felt comfortable doing

if the ipa extracts aren't werking to well, boiling the pill mass first in acetone or better yet MEK seems to help alot too.

as for the concept of gassing, swibbs been knocking this idea around for awhile :

instead of gassing directly, produce the hcl and pass gas into ice cold anhydrous ipa. i dont know the exact numbers as far as how much hcl gas will go into the ipa but it's a rather large amount. when it's time to get the psuedo out of the NP, you can calculate the approx amount of hcl needed to recover the missing amount of pfed and then measure off and weigh your hcl laden ipa,  calculate then add cold ipa/hcl to xylene. bring temp of solution up to 105 deg C slowly while stirring briskly.
swibb hasn't done this process yet in a case like this but sees no reason why this shouldn't be of some use. swibbs sucesfully used the process to more easily gas clean fb psuedo and fb meth from xylene. naptha seems to be a bitch about it however. swibb imagines tolly would work as well as the xylol.