Tetraless in Oz!

[geezmeister]

I agree with Ware's comments in

Post 512341

(wareami: "Okay....", Stimulants) and with Placebo's comments in

Post 512394

(placebo: "Blah, Blah, Blah! Your very good at using as...", Stimulants). I understand what Shane_Warne says in

Post 512356

(Shane_Warne: "Just listen.", Stimulants) and understand why he uses the tone he uses posting his comments. 

He has posted what he is doing. The tetra trap predates the Eudragit formulation introduction. It is not effective against all of the Eudragit polymers. He's working with pills and reporting what he is having success with. He's reporting the news. He's not posting headlines (new threads). If you aren't keeping up with the news, don't complain that you didn't see a headline.

If I had enough pills to extract the pseudo from at present, I would likely give Shane-Warne's procedures a try, and would incorporate a long xylene soak and use xylene as the solvent to extract the pseudo.

Pill availability problems hamper my ability to participate in this experiment. Otherwise, I might find myself having to agree with Ware about not heating solvents, and with Shane_Warne about not needing tetra. I'd probably find something I could disagree with Placebo about, just on general principles. (Agreeing with all three bees in one day might invoke a curse of some type.)

I see a long ride to gather pills in my immediate future.

[Shane_Warne]

geezmeister you sounded worn out by the sight of all the arguing. damn. thanks for the vote of confidence, so what would be your reasoning behind using xylene to extract with mate?

Well kris, I apologise for the tone.

I think if you follow the procedure I outlined then you'll get a result.
It's very hard to get excellent results on your first time at anything, especially when there is anxieties to deal with aswell.

Just remember a few small things, grind well and pass through a sifter.
Try find a nice small sifter that fits nicely over a cup or glass. You'll be surprised how little you'll lose doing this, even on one pack.

You can always spray the mortar and pestle, sive, and cup during the procedure and then add it anyway.

Goodluck, what're you going to be testing this on if you decide to? 240s?

woo unchartered territory if so but I'd still try that method first, and expect a result.

Or another method is like weazlds (sp?) and do rough alcohol extracts, boil down slowly, then A/B with water.

Theyre both good.

[geezmeister]

xylene was your choice of extraction solvent. I would certainly experiment with it in this application. Using your approach, I would do a xylene presoak to remove inerts that dissolve in xylene, removing them before I extracted the pseudo rather than at the same time. I would do a soak, overnight at least, rather than a boil as heat reportedly activates some of the newer gakks. Xylene is agressive enough that it need not be heated to do a good job of extracting the freebase pseudo. Xylene is a "dry" solvent, which provides some advantage in the extraction step as well as when gassing.

As to "dry basing"--- when Video Editor was working on what became the Straight to Bee method, we experimented with  dry basing the pill mass and extracting pseudo with hot naptha. We had yields better than the straight the Bee method as posted when dry basing. We also extracted every last bit of the PEG in the pills with the pseudo. It might have been that we extracted the pseudo with the PEG-- since it turned out that hot naptha dissolves PEG as well as anything else we tried. This led to me to include a couple of naptha boils to remove PEG from the pill mass prior to basing when using the STB method. Xylene at room temperature did not take out PEG then, and I have no reason to assume PEG has changed solubilities on us. I didn't try to dry base and extract into xylene at the time, because  discovering the efficacy of hot naptha as a PEG solvent solved our immediate problem.
I would do one pull before using any water at all, just to see how well the dry basing works, and to see if stirring the pill mass/base in xylene might improve yield by facilitating the basing in some way. It worked with naptha, but the naptha also brought the PEG. Perhaps with a presoak you won't have similar problems with xylene.

[12cheman12]

oright i know this is a bit off topic but i dont want to start another thread asking this.

Check this out geez

Each *********  24 Hour Relief Sustained-Release Tablet contains loratadine 10mg in the tablet coating for immediate release and 240mg pseudoephedrine sulfate in the tablet core which is released slowly from the core allowing for once daily administration. Each tablet also contains hypromellose, ethylcellulose, calcium hydrogen phosphate, povidone, silicone dioxide, magnesium stearate, macrogol, sucrose, carnauba wax, beeswax and artificial colouring.

This is pretty much our main pill here, for swim anyways.

What would your experience tell you to do here?

[Shane_Warne]

xylene was your choice of extraction solvent.

Nope, a combination of either xylene or toluene with naptha or mineral turpentine, is my choice, but your way sounds good too.

Boiling naptha does bring up PEG as you discovered way back then. Oznaptha does the same.

PEG is the primary impurity.
Using rt xylene would be a good improvment because it doesn't dissolve PEG well until boiling, does it?

Acetone does remove PEG at the crystallization stage, but the sooner the better as you say.

With the orange being activated with heat, it seems to only get real bad, when the temperature gets about 2/3's to boiling, and onwards.

warm should be alright, I wish I had one of those coffee warmers you bees have been gloating about, my coffee always gets cold when I'm typing.

Thanks for the help Geez. Sometimes techniques just need a tweak here or there to extend theyr'e life.

[12cheman12]

shane, as swim stated before how orange is actived with heat swim found that out while fuckin round with some pills, cant memba what types but. But im sure swim did solvent boils aswell. so maybe orange is only actived when its heated in the presence of a base?
Also if you use a mix of naptha and NP the naptha wont pull any FB unless heated which could blow the whole thing releasing the orange.

[Shane_Warne]

shane, as swim stated before how orange is actived with heat swim found that out while fuckin round with some pills, cant memba what types but. But im sure swim did solvent boils aswell. so maybe orange is only actived when its heated in the presence of a base?

It's not important to find out, since nothing needs to be boiled with a base or without.


I never said use naptha alone, or mineral turps. But it does dissolve a certain amount per/ml, of fb at rt actually.
Why do you think bees have been placing it in the freezer, to filter fb out?

Use a combination, or straight xylene or toluene and you won't have to worry.

Also, as you know, swim has been bringing it up to a boil and still getting a good result, with orange activated.

So make it warm if you like, but not at all hot. Use a 50:50 mix of turps to xylene.

Do it on one pack, it's much less tricky, so that you can see results, then do more.