Author Topic: Making myself sick  (Read 12025 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

dwarfer

  • Guest
a question..??
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2004, 11:03:00 PM »
Good on you ware for being 12 months ahead of the pack..

(woof woof)

Question # 1.   Is chloroephedrine yellow?  I think the .HCl salt of chloroephedrine is white. 

Question 2.   Is NaOH OR KOH in alcohol basic enough to
cause recematization of the amine group?  It's a far cry
(i think) from the basicity of that proposition as compared to Na in alcohol...


dwarfer

  • Guest
an answer?
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2004, 11:22:00 PM »
Proposal:

1 clean gups

2.  per prior reference (See rhode's refs under the FAQ's for this forum) treat with Na in MeOH to effect racematization of amine.

3.  per Wiz (et al) form chloro intermediary, with raceimization of the first moiety right ":<) of the ring.

4.  per Emde's technique (modified), add Pd on C to acidic solution of chloro-methamphetamine.  (solution # 1)

Prepare solution # 2 consisting of CaH2 covered by alcohol.

While being stirred, drip solution # 1 into solution # 2.  Control temperature to <40C or so.

Avoid combustion of the hydrogen gas.. 

 Bring to light boil to drive off most alcohol.

filter, basify, separate, and gas to phenomenal 96% yield
of 50/50 DL Ma.  ":<)
(In my dreams..) ;D



Newton

  • Guest
Question # 1. Is chloroephedrine yellow?
« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2004, 12:03:00 AM »
Question # 1.   Is chloroephedrine yellow?  I think the .HCl salt of chloroephedrine is white.

Correct, the .HCl of Chloroephedrine is white. I was talking about the freebase, which is yellow, according to Emde's papers on ephedrine.

geezmeister

  • Guest
the rest of the batch... of pseudo
« Reply #43 on: May 20, 2004, 11:26:00 PM »
The rest of the pseudo extracted was assaulted with various and sundry attempts to clean it, none of which frankly did anything more than expose another foilant hiding in the mix and allow it to trash the process.

SWIG wound up with about two grams of pseudo to react. This appeared to be as clean as he could get it by means known and available to him at the time. The yield from this small reaction was a little over a gram of what appeared to be methamphetamine, which kept him up for three days and provided the missing euphoria.

While the stuff was not what he expects or desires (or lusts after) it was markedly better than the first batch, the high was much better, and the tendency to overuse and make oneself ill completely absent. This of course could be related to the MeOH/NaOH treatment of the pseudo, from the pseudo being cleaner, or from the reaction completing to a better degree because of any or all of the three.

At least I didn't make myself sick, but I don't care to even try an extraction of those pills again. For years they were my staple, and anymore they are simple far more trouble than I care to deal with. Then again, with the law in my state, dealing with pills at all has become pretty much academic.

The stuff was better than street quality by a long shot, but not anything to write home about, or brag about here. Or anywhere else. Then again, I'd do more tonight if I had it.


ning

  • Guest
Racemization
« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2004, 06:49:00 AM »
Perhaps the use of phase transfer catalysts would boost the basicity up to cause racemization without difficulty.

For those unaware, swimming pool algae killer is 50% PTC, and other things will do, including (ironically) PEG.

With dry powdered Na2CO3 and/or NaOH in some nonpolar, give it hell.

Alternately, a nice wet reflux with NaOH might also destroy some gaks as well as racemizing your product.

Could we be returning to the days of P2P meth? What a surprise it would be!


amalgum

  • Guest
I really think so. Besides with P2P SWIM would
« Reply #45 on: May 21, 2004, 09:41:00 AM »
I really think so.  Besides with P2P SWIM would hypothetically much rather spend maybe a little more investment with mainly time than current e methods, for a tremendously larger return.  Fuck scrouging pill and shit to make an ounce, SWIM would love to maybe someday fall asleep and have glorious dreams of kilos of phenylacetone.  Beleive it or not SWIM would have no interest in acquiring ten pounds to sell, he would bury the majority of it somewhere or maybe keep it dissolved in water that just happens to be sitting in some kind of innocent container, a beverage perhaps, and just keep it to himself and the closests friends who have been there and done that right along with me.  SWIM has to think which is more risky, to possess a very large quantity over a long period of time, or to risk curious busy bodies or even a total fluke which may lead to your arrest becuase you have a life long interest and chemistry, and an interest of drugs and pharmacology (as well as those illegal substances that may be good psychological tools), and chose to do something illegal one day with that knowledge over and over again cause you have to keep making more.

ChemoSabe

  • Guest
Future Ponderings
« Reply #46 on: May 21, 2004, 12:12:00 PM »
It's sort of funny to read that Homebrewing e/L-PAC  thread. With Orgy as the one consistent trailblazer baffled as to why noone else seems to have much real interest.

Swim came into this scientific hobby all hyped on somehow thinking he'd jump straight into electrocatyltic hydro. Boy was he green.

He does still like thinking of possible means of personal supply science that would essentially bypass all usual LE "radar".

And much like amalgum he's also had ideas of maybe performing his hobbyist "chores" just once or twice per year at a decent quantity so that the scientific apparati can then be more than just half way put away and well stored.

Another intersting note. Swim knows of a lab which was once "investigated" and absolutely everything there that had to do with HI/RP was confiscated. Everything that had to do with electro was left behind.

PS - Palladium is damn cheap these days.


geezmeister

  • Guest
new formulation?
« Reply #47 on: May 21, 2004, 04:22:00 PM »
I'm getting feedback by pms from more than one bee indicating the problem I ran into is one they are running into with the 120's. This suggests that the formulation of these pills may have changed.

Be very careful out there today, boys and girls. These pills may be dangerous to your physical and mental health-- At least if you try to make meth from them.

I am convinced that my best option now is to move to another route to meth. I just didn't have the lead time I thought I would.


dwarfer

  • Guest
Don't give up yet
« Reply #48 on: May 21, 2004, 10:54:00 PM »

Post 447791

(Aurelius: "US pat 2797243 Racemization of l-Amphetamine", Stimulants)
,

Post 480374 (missing)

(Rhodium: "Racemization of Optically Active Ephedrines", Stimulants)
,

Post 480362 (missing)

(Rhodium: "Na alkoxide racemization of (pseudo)ephedrine", Stimulants)
,

Post 487660

(Rhodium: "Chlorination reactions of ephedrines revisited.", Stimulants)
,

Post 400334 (missing)

(SHORTY: "Re-Cooking Meth for Higher Potentcy", Stimulants)
...

Note that in the last thread there is reference to the "recook" of poor material, with some significant
enhancement noted.

As can be postulated from the first referred threads,
racemitization can be accomplished in strong acids and strong bases.  It is not totally unreasonable to hypothesize
that the reaction conditions themselves result in some
improvement to the material's steriochemistry.

There have been refs to the salubrious benefit of degrading
adulterants by exposure to strong bases (UF's "deconstructionist" thread)..

Some here may not have the sodium to make the sodium alcoholate referred to, but nobody can't get a lithium battery.

If KOH does the job, the pH 23??  or so of the alcohol and
alkali metal should do so even more thoroughly, while screwing around the direction of the (OH) on the pseudo, and maybe even flip the amine group, though the evidence is not clear in the literature, and Rhodium says not likely.

For that issue, however, it does appear to be directed specifically
in the references utilizing Raney Nickle.

[

http://www.geocities.com/dritte123/Nipat.html

]

Since Urushibara catalysts are similarly able to do the same things,
maybe the whole interfering construct of the pharmaceutical
pill-fuggers can be brought down.

Meanwhile,  though: let there be no mistake.  As in some other states, Pseudo will become harder to get..

===========================

So get your melamine camp fire fuel while you can, or your oil of almond:

the time will come when all this fun will be over, and you
will just have common old easy unfugged ephedrine alkaloids to
deal with.

won't that be a drag...    :(




  US patent 2608583 Racemization of Amines

Example 5:

The d-isomer of methamphetamine will be racemized
 to the racemic mixture when 100g of methamphetamine
is treated with 10g of the catalytic material
comprising of nickel on kieselguhr which
is maintained at 145*c for 10hours.
 The product maintains only 15% of
 its original optical activity.

 
8)


wareami

  • Guest
Pillfuggers
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2004, 12:40:00 AM »

I am convinced that my best option now is to move to another route to meth. I just didn't have the lead time I thought I would.




Man....didn't Geez say a mouth full there!
I think we all knew that the underlying momentum would force Bees in the direction away from OTC's eventually.
In spite of how much fun it was bending over the undesirables and ramming home circumventions and work-arounds, the newest legislations have ripped that flightdeck from under our wings.
Unobtainium must be super-disappointed that the circumvention team has been halted because as word has it on the board(to hear him tell it :-[ ), he's got a circus-sized  8) member perfectly suited for driving it home where the pHarmanimals are concerned. :P

Just as our resident Master Dickaround Dwarfer is working hard at not giving in and giving UP, Ibee and The Kidz are struggling to hang on to the last frontier, commonly known as molecule molestation in order to flip things back in bees favor where the OTC market is concerned.

It's looking pretty Grim folks!

Okay....my question that may be viewed along the lines with DwarferTheory here...
Can the optical rotation of OTC pfed be easily identified as being either -l or -d?
And what about a simple test for a racemic mix -l and -d?
Can the Tyndall Effect be utilized in the analysis?
I've been thinking this tyndall effect may come in handy at some stage in extraction with some of the more hard to detect polymers and gaaks. I dunno?
But what about observing the isomer rotation with common household methods in determining -l and -d isomers?
Is there a simple way short of using radiation and space telescopes :-[
Whatta ya'll think?

Tyndall Effect Pics



And ya'll thought I was laying here scratching my head, takin an asswhoopin, without even the slightest public outcry? :)




CharlieBigpotato

  • Guest
its all good
« Reply #50 on: May 22, 2004, 05:19:00 AM »

jemma_jamerson

  • Guest
principle
« Reply #51 on: May 22, 2004, 05:26:00 AM »

amalgum

  • Guest
It'll still be otc to make meth.
« Reply #52 on: May 22, 2004, 03:08:00 PM »
It'll still be otc to make meth.  P2P can be made otc, trust me.

geezmeister

  • Guest
I agree on the OTC part
« Reply #53 on: May 22, 2004, 05:39:00 PM »
Amalgum-- I agree on the OTC part. It just won't be through pseudo cold meds anymore.


UncleFester

  • Guest
too low temp in cooking??
« Reply #54 on: June 10, 2004, 12:46:00 AM »
US Patent 6,399,828 has a few interesting tables. They did an HI red P cook at 100 C instead of at reflux and got 50% of what they termed "bis product". Perhaps that was the culprit? In any case, the patent is a good read.

wareami

  • Guest
Good Read Indeed...
« Reply #55 on: June 10, 2004, 06:11:00 AM »
Them bastards stoled the LWR.... ;D  ;D  ;D
Goddammit...Who taught them how to cook??? :P  :P  :P
That is pretty freaky! If they'd have cme here complaining of low yields, I'd have advised them to cook longer to increase yield ;)

In the following experiments the analytical methods used include quantitative and qualitative analyses performed by high performance liquid chromatography (HPLC) and gas-liquid chromatography (GLC) methods.

I. Prior Art Synthesis Methods

For comparison purposes, the two prior art synthesis methods mentioned hereinabove were tested and the results obtained.

1. Iodination of Norephedrine Hydrochloride and Reduction to Amphetamine ##STR6##

A 100 mL round bottom flask with a magnetic stirrer was charged with 20 mL 57% Hl solution. (1R,2S)-(-)-norephedrine (10.0 g, 0.066 mol) was then added to the flask with stirring. Red phosphorus (1.0 g) was added to the stirred mixture and the reaction mixture temperature then increased to 40.degree. C. within a few minutes. The reaction mixture was then heated to 100.degree. C. and samples were withdrawn at intervals for HPLC analysis. The results were as follows:

a. 2 hours (58% norephedrine, 6.8% amphetamine, 6% bis compound);

b. 4 hours (50% norephedrine, 10.2% amphetamine, 14.7% bis compound);

c. 6 hours (41% norephedrine, 15.6% amphetamine, 17.7% bis compound); and

d. 22 hours (48.95% amphetamine, 48.5% bis compound).

After 22 hours at 100.degree. C., the reaction mixture was cooled and filtered to remove the phosphorus. An oily layer separated (1.3 g, identified by GLC as bis compound). The aqueous layer was basified with 50% sodium hydroxide solution and extracted with ether. The ether extract was dried over anhydrous magnesium sulfate and concentrated to obtain 4.1 g of yellow oil, identified by HPLC as consisting of 83.23% amphetamine and 16.27% bis compound). The calculated yield of amphetamine was therefore 3.41 g (38.3%)




That is 3.41 g from 10g starter feed. ::)
Fuckin amateurs! :P  
YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!

Patent US6399828






geezmeister

  • Guest
test of temps
« Reply #56 on: June 10, 2004, 05:30:00 PM »
SWIG hoarded his sinus meds for a month and had almost enough to be worth cooking. He decided to reduce his moisture from LWR levels, to start the cook slowly, let it cook for a couple of hours, then increase the temperature of the cook significantly for several more hours. Hew used moisture level more like Wareami uses, mixed his ingredients in a test tube and capped this with a balloon, and placed in an oil/mud bath and slowly brought it up to 100C. After two hours at 100C the temperature was increased. SWIG would tell you how much it was increased if he possessed a working thermometer capable of measuring the temp, but the Borrowers seem to have made off with the ones he had that could. The mix was held at a significantly hotter temperatures... he would estimate the temp was at least 160C, for four more hours.

Yield was low, for whatever reason... it was a small reaction. The quality of the product seemed improved and the additional heat appeared to have cracked what polymer gakks were still with the feedstock. The meth was not particularly tweaky, which supports Placebo's argument that it is not the heat itself that makes for tweaky dope, but the heat early in the reaction when the risk of by product formation is higher.

Conclusions are entirely subjective, and as SWIG has enjoyed very little decent meth since the introduction of laws making pseudo products schedule V drugs in his state, but he thinks he is objective enough about the product to make an honest assessment that the increased heat appeared to resolve some of the gakk problem and did not produce dope with tweaky characteristics.

And it did not make him sick. :)