Author Topic: Some newbee Qs about pill extraction  (Read 3217 times)

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meths

  • Guest
Some newbee Qs about pill extraction
« on: August 25, 2004, 07:21:00 PM »
Hello bees,

Just some quick questions about pill extractions:

1. Swim has read about people boiling pill masses in acetone to remove antihistamines. Will MEK work OK for this purpose as well? Seems it should, as they are both ketones, and MEK is an even more agressive solvent as far as I know.

2. Would an overnight soak be OK for the above as opposed to a boil (less fumes), or is the heat needed to break up the antihistamines?

3. Some suggest boiling in naptha, turps, etc to remove povidone. Is an overnight soak in xylene sufficient for this purpose?

4. In the tetra trap, why does the pseudo migrate to the top NP, rather than staying in the tetra? Is it because the tetra is already too full of gakks and has no room for pseudo?

5. Does the TT work OK for pseudo sulfate pills?

6. When adding water to the TT, swim is not sure how much to use, as he is only extracting small amounts (a few grams). Going by the post, this would suggest only a few ml of water. Is that enough? What are we trying to do here? Do we just want enough water to dissolve the pseudo or what? I assume we want to make sure that the water added is totally absorbed by the pill/carbonate mass and does not get poured off when the NP is poured off?? Can someone provide a scientific basis for determining how much water to add??

7. Swims proposed future first extraction is this:

a) overnight MEK soak and rinse
b) overnight xylene soak and rinse
c) quick tetra rinse
d) tetra trap extraction using xylene and gassing for product

Pills are 120mg sulfate variety. Can anyone anticipate any problems?

Cheers all, your help is much appreciated.

Ewok_Poacher

  • Guest
Something for you think about
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2004, 07:33:00 AM »
I am a newb @ this but I am an expert on how to fuck up. I have made every mistake you can make, I have a process down now that works for me. If you are new like me I suggest use white 60mg pills, extract with STE (looks harder but if you follow instructions carefully it's really easier) recrystallize and flash with acetone. I have had success with soaking pills but it was way more of a pain in the ass with way higher losses than STE.

geezmeister

  • Guest
others suggest....
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2004, 10:08:00 AM »
Other bees, myself included, suggest you read Fester's "Deconstructionist Thought" thread and extract with a method that actually breaks the polymers down.

The STE isn't enough anymore. When VE posted that method it worked beautifully on my favorite white 60's. If I relied on it now with the same pills, I would have low yields, meth full intermediates, and the a/b would not be very efficient. The inactives list is the same.

Unless you incorporate an attack on the polymers in the extraction method, you are going to have less than clean pseudo and you will foul the reaction with reaction inhibitors and struggle with a/b inhibitors. Until you break those polymers, you can't separate them from the pseudo. After you break them down, you may not get all the fragments out of the pseudo.

Such is life these days. I've seen pseudo that is pretty damned clean for pseudo these days that still won't recrystallize to brad-like spikes in alcohol. You have to have clean pseudo to see those, and when you have those you know your reaction will be a great success.

I have the impression -- and it is just that, no more than a hunch-- that the Eudragit polymer that is the reaction inhibitor is the one that leaves the whitish stain. It can be broken, but the fragments that are not removed impede the a/b extraction. These will give you a brown stain on foil when you vaporize the pseudo. This is what you see when you break the polymer that leaves the whitish stain. This fragment seems to foul the a/b process. React the pseudo that leaves a whitish stain and yield is limited, break the polymer to improve yields, but you will need to do more than a simple a/b to get your yield. Sort of a choice between the devil and deep blue sea, or polymer, as the case may be. The whitish stain will give you a low yield with a clean interface, the brown one will give more yield but with trash at the interface and difficulty basing and extracting. Just some observations, no conclusions yet.


meths

  • Guest
Geez:
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2004, 02:28:00 AM »
I read fester's thread with great interest. This technique is similar to something I mentioned last year under another name. I just thought it was too simple to really work. Anyway, what is the current thought on his proposal? How much success have others had with it? (yes I read the whole thread) Has the process changed from his original suggestion of boiling in KOH/ISO, and cleaning with water? What have been your findings? This is very interesting.

Cheers.

geezmeister

  • Guest
read the thread
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2004, 06:45:00 AM »
Read the thread.  It doesn't get any more current that the thread itself. Do the process as he described it early in the thread, with 91% ISO and KOH. You can succeed with KCl and NaOH  but it is more difficult than with KOH. Just remember to consider the other inerts besides the Eudragit polymers. You still need to remove a good many of them, depending on what is in the pills you have. The restrictions on the sales of OTC pseudo in my state have prevented me from doing much experimentation.


UncleFester

  • Guest
leaking crap
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2004, 06:24:00 PM »
So some polymer fragments get through the KOH boil? One can go back to the work of Emde, and others who used acetone as  recrystallization solvent....no not a cold wash, they put just enough acetone into the crystals to dissolve them while the solvent was hot. This will discriminate against non-acetone soluble specie which can be decanted or filtered off...then when it gets cold, the pure goods are obtained... Or one can investigate other solvents for recrystallization...it has been my pleasure to wreck the Warner-Lambert Patent.
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