Author Topic: i need more details  (Read 3894 times)

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Quality

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i need more details
« on: May 12, 2004, 06:44:00 AM »

kris_1108

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here
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2004, 11:58:00 AM »
hi

Basically, to make meth, you start off with pseudoephedrine. Actually, its pseudoephedrine hydrochloride; pseudoephedrine (and some ther drugs) have different 'forms', and we want pseudoephedrine 'hydrochloride'. This is the water soluble, 'salt' form of the drug. Other forms include pseuso ephedrine sulfate, and freebase pseudoephedrine. Pseudoephedrine can bee changed from its hydrochloride form, into freebase. The freebase form is not water soluble, it is oil soluble (soluble in solvents like xylene and toluene etc.) It can bee changed back into hydrochloride too. Or even into to its sulfate form.

ANYWAY, WE WANT NEED IT IN ITS HYDROCHLORIDE FORM. Which is pretty much how you buy it any way. You probably know that it is in pharmaceutical pills desiged to relieve sinus congestion. The reason I told you about the hyrdochloride(HCl) and freebase(FB) forms is because when extracting pseudo from pills, some methods involve turning it into its freebase form, and then back into its hydrochloride form. This is called and "Acid/Base" extraction. The idea of it is to leave all the other shit ("inactives") behind.

Then we want to convert the pseudoephedrine into methamphetamine (acutally, it gets 'reduced' to methamphetamine). We are actually modifying the pseudoephedrine molecules, i.e changing their molecular form/structure. If we add pseudoephedrine to hyrdoiodic acid, and let the solution 'reflux' at !100°c for around 24 hrs, the hydriodic acid will 'reduce' the pseudo to meth.

To make this hydriodic acid, we need a mixture of water (h20, or dh20 (distilled water), Red Phosphorus (RP, obtained from matchbox/matchbook strikers) and iodine crystals(I2, purchased from somewhere (hard to get), or extracted from Iodine Tincture (which is a liquid, but you can extract the crystals from it.)

So TO MAKE SPEED you need CLEAN pseudo ephedrine (also called pfed, or pseudo), Red Phosphorus and Iodine. And also some distilled water

So you need a single neck flask. 250ml will bee fine. And you add the pseudo ephedrine and the RP (which are both 'powders') and then dh2o. And then you slowly add iodine, which reacts with the RP to make HYDRIODIC ACID! (also called HI). The flask then has a condenser attached to its neck (a vertical glass tube, about 20mm wide and 2 ft long (although it can be different width/length)), and is then put in an 'oil bath' (submerged a few cms in a dish/pot containing oil), which is on a hotplate.

Turn on the hotplate and heat the oil to about 115°c, because you want the INTERNAL TEMP OF THE FLASK TO BE ABOUT 100°c. There is a temperature loss between the oilbath and the 'reactants' (i.e the pfed/rp/i2/dh20). At this temperature, the contents of the flask (which is a thick dark red liquid) will start to bubble, and the 'steam' coming off will rise up, into the condenser, and then it will cool down (cos its cold up there!) and it will CONDENSE back into a liquid, and drip back down into the flask. It is 'recycled'. 24hrs (even better 36 or 48hrs) is enough time to reduce the pseudoephedirne to methamphetamine in this solution of hydriodic acid.

Of course you need to add the ingredients in the right proportions. For every gram of pseudo (this is just a guide), use 0.8mLs of DISTILLED water (which u can buy ofcourse), 1.2-1.5gms of iodine, and 0.4-0.75gms of Red Phosphorus. If you have real lab grade (LG) red phos, you would lean towards the .4gm end. With Match Book Red Phos (MBRP), you lean towards the high end because that fine red powder that you have extracted is not ALL RED PHOS. It contains some glass and other shit. Same goes with LGI2 (lab grade iodine) versus I2 from tinc. (tincture).

Here's an example. 10gms pfed, 13gms I2, 6gms RP, and 8mls dh20 (which is 1PFED : 1.3I2 : 0.6RP : 0.8dH20)

After the reaction (rxn), you have reduced the pseudo to meth. But theres ALL SORTS of other shit in there. So you must cleanly extract the meth outta there, in an 'acid/base' extraction, where the meth is turned into its freebase form (by raising the pH of the solution using NaOH (lye) Then the FB meth is isolated (using a non-polar solvent like xylene, or in a process called 'steam distillation') and then turned back in to its water soluble salt form using muriatic/hydrochloric acid (HCl) . See

Post 428410

(geezmeister: "The post-reaction workup: a cook's summary", Stimulants)


The info that I have provided is not set in concrete, and many variations may apply. Different cook times, temps, ratios, flask sizes, flask/oilbath temp differences (which can bee from 10° to 30°(approx), RP can be replaced with Phosphorus acid or Hypophosphorus acid, allsorts of things. However the information IS an explanation of how speed is made. This seems to be the most common way around here (the stimulants forum).

This will also help
RP - Redphosphorus
I2 - iodine
MB - Matchbook
LG - Labgrade
NP - non-polar, meaning a solvent that is 'non-polar', like naptha, xylene, toluene, etc.
FB - freebase
HCl - hydrochloride, or hydrochloric
RXN - reaction
PM - pill mass (pills that have been ground up)
GUPS - ground up pills
OTC - over the counter

Hope I helped a bit. This is not a full on recipe, just a guide, to give you the general idea. Feel free to ask more questions and other bees come in and tell me of any disputible info.

Some stuff to remember:
*A decongestant drug called Pseudoephedrine is used to make speed
*The primary source of Pseudoephedrine for most 'meth cooks' is from OTC decongestant pills
*Hydriodic Acid will 'reduce' (convert) Pseudoephedrine to Methamphetamine(speed)
*Hydriodic acid is produced in the reaction between Red Phosphorus and Iodine
*Both Meth and Pseudoephedrine have a 'freebase' form, and therefor can have a 'salt' form, like hydrochloride or sulfate. Most street speed is Methamphetamine Hydrochloride
*Both Meth HCl (Hydrochloride) and Pseudoephedrine HCl will turn into their freebase form when in an environment where the pH is 12.8 or higher. Substances like lye (Caustic soda, NaOH) or Sodium Carbonate are used to raise pH of a solution. Acid will lower pH of a solution.
*A freebase substance will change back into a water soluble salt form when exposed to an acid. For example, freebase Pseudoephedrine will turn into Pseudoephedrine Hydrochloride when exposed to HCl (hydrochloric/muriatic acid.)
*A drug in its freebase form is oil soluble
*A drug in its Hydrchloride form is water soluble

callen

  • Guest
OOps...sorry 'bout that
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2004, 02:18:00 AM »
My friend A.L.F. just stopped by for a taste of my beer. It likes to reminesss about it's good ol' cookin' days while it's here...I like to hear it's stories....it's just a good ol' boy/girl/thing anyway.
   A.L.F. chuckled when it read this post...after it's laughter subsided, A.L.F. sezs to no one in particular,"Nothing is ever easy...it took a long time for me to get it straight...the hardest part being...remembering which is which...hahaha.Pfed freebase is a solid...and it smells so good, and can be scraped off the plate after evaporation of the NP solvent used for extraction..., while ephedrine freebase is an oily looking
liquid that is best obtained by steam distillation from the NP solvent used for extraction...by the way,"where is that darn Kat at?' :)


morpheus

  • Guest
free base and salt
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2004, 03:35:00 PM »
Quality,most of the pseudo extractions leave you with the free base form of pseudophedrine to work with.You can either
put it in a NP&titrate with HCL to obtain the pseudo salt
or pseudo hcl. for rxn.
Other way is to read about freebase rxns.In TFSE placebo,
jacked and other bees describe how to do it.The trick is freebase reactions get highly exothermic(creates its own heat).Worst case scenario: flask fire, smoke everywhere
fire dept shows up.Least case: all your stuff gets burned up.
If you live in an apartment and are new to this dreaming
you are asking for trouble.Swim isn't saying you can't do this from apartment;just get some experience under your belt
first.
The difference between these 48 hour marathons and these
quick 4-6 hour ones is this:
The quick ones are called dry becase very little water is used.The HI in the synthesis uses heat,pressure and gas to
reduce.
In the long one the HI is being refluxed over the 48 hours.
Temperature(internal flask)is held at 90C.
As the gas goes up it condenses in either your condenser or punch-ball and runs back down.So in this one it is liquid HI that is doing the reducing.Swim has read from greater
authorities at the Hive than himself that in the long slow
cook less by-products are formed meaning cleaner gear.

Quality

  • Guest
thank ya
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2004, 04:23:00 AM »
alright my post has already created some "bad karma", most likely due to the simplicity of my questions. however my intentions are good and i am willing to search but, still get vague explanations;  ive been doing reading for years inconsistently and am ready to dream but, without nightmares i want my dreaming to be guided, humble, and, successful. i appreciate all of the feedback i have received, but still what extractions and synth methods experienced bees would recommend that are not to complex and unattainable but, still produce Quality tweek and require some time and dedication. i will give everything i have gained back to the twizzle community once i have mastered the art, please cure me of my cooking insecurity and confusions,


wareami

  • Guest
Some Quality Assurance....
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2004, 05:51:00 AM »
;D
These facts cannot be changed so a concise understanding is in order here.
Bees entering in this field of study today have no gaurantees.
It's common for most to come here and seek out answers in full view of all the successes reported.
When Ibee first came to the hive he studied and studied and aquired and studied and studied more and then aquired what he needed.
All without ever asking a single question of any bee because he felt he would place bees in jeopardy of a conspiracy charge.
Yeah he's hard headed that way and has the bumps to prove it.
But he did it on his own with only the info provided up to that time.
He only sought out info from one bee after his fifteenth failure and that bee sent him a chant and taught the importance of patience.
Now we have tons more info here and it's a sea of knowledge and I'll tell anybee entering this areana today that if they can't arrive at a consistant plan of attack, they are not looking in the right place or looking sincerely enough.
That plan of attack needn't rely solely on the assistance of others.
This is not a reflection of laziness on any individual.
Resourcefulness is a must! If you can't develope the mindset required to embrace and execute resourcefulness, I say quit while you're ahead before you hurt yourself or someone else.
The pharmers have made it hard even for seasoned bees to have successes repetatively relying solely on OTC methods.
Legislation is making it harder for bees to divulge information without shooting the whole collective in the head and ripping their wings off.
My suggestion at this point is to delve into the info provided so far with determination to succeed and success will be had.
If Ibee could do it back then with limited info and no hand-holding or spoonfeeding, I'm sure a level of success will be had within the sea of knowledge provided now, if one simply applies him/herself to the point of being able to pinpoint definative details areas of concern that will provide answers and solutions to specific problems and not generalities such as the ones you're asking us to provide.

For those that are itching for a taste of success and they're not ready yet to execute all that's required based on limited knowledge, Do what Ibee did in the beginning...seek out the answers to others questions and sincerely try to assist and every question you ever had will lowly unravel and fall right into your lap as the reward for trying to help.
I mean that and it's the only gaurantee I can attest to in regards to preparedness being the prerequisite mandatory first step to "Quality Assurance" ;)
To this day I wouldn't trade a single failure in for a success as the failures taught me more than I ever wanted to know.
No disrespect....just the facts!

Kudos to kris_1108!
Makes me proud to call myself a bee!


kris_1108

  • Guest
Unrealistic
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2004, 10:23:00 PM »
Ware is exactly right.

'Quality', you said "I...am ready to dream but, without nightmares i want my dreaming to be guided, humble, and, successful.

This may be theoreticaly possible. But it will never happen. I mean, you can/will have success, but it most likely wont bee te first time. Or the second. Or the third. Or the twentieth. You need to make mistakes; sometimes thats the best way to learn.

Benefit from this FAQ

Post 408293

(Rhodium: "The Stimulants Forum FAQ", Stimulants)


What are you waiting for? Remember, you need
*Pseudo
*Red Phos
*Iodine

Come on!

On your marks, get set, GO!

Quality

  • Guest
you bees are greaaaaaaaaaaat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2004, 04:27:00 PM »
all of my questions have been answered, specific thanks to Kris_1180, morpheus,and wareami (i took no disrespect to your post) ...................... :)


midway

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hey, dont GO! no one here does anything beyond
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2004, 06:56:00 PM »
hey, dont GO! no one here does anything beyond the theoretical, its common knowlegde.


This may be theoreticaly possible. But it will never happen. I mean, you can/will have success, but it most likely wont bee te first time. Or the second. Or the third. Or the twentieth. You need to make mistakes; sometimes thats the best way to learn.



That really isnt true. If you learn some chemistry, youll find that whats going on here is a simple reduction of a molecule, and the procedures to do so are straightforward. If you get a clear understanding there isnt any reason why you shouldnt be able to get it on your first try. an entirely theoretical friend of mine got it on his first try, mostly by not being too eager and reading up a little - this isnt mount ranier, its just a simple procedure. >:(  :o  :)


kris_1108

  • Guest
extraction frustration
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2004, 11:57:00 PM »
That really isnt true. If you learn some chemistry, youll find that whats going on here is a simple reduction of a molecule, and the procedures to do so are straightforward. If you get a clear understanding there isnt any reason why you shouldnt be able to get it on your first try.

I was thinking more about the most difficult part - Pseudoephedrine extraction. IMO that is what bees spend most of their time with. And with the latest gakks/foilants it makes it even harder for the poor newbees to get clean pfed.

Don't ya wish you spent $3000 on pills about ten years ago!! I wish that I did!

midway

  • Guest
Re: I was thinking more about the most ...
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2004, 06:21:00 PM »


I was thinking more about the most difficult part - Pseudoephedrine extraction. IMO that is what bees spend most of their time with. And with the latest gakks/foilants it makes it even harder for the poor newbees to get clean pfed.




Very true...it should also be said that friends 1st batch was with relatively ungakked pillstock.