Tired of Match Books? Use these pellets instead!

[Giver_Hell]

SWIG got a hold of something different the other day when he tried to re-up on some H3PO3 or flakes. The was shown some pellets that where off white in color about the size of BB's. SWIG was told that they would react with iodine once heated up just like H3PO3. SWIG was instructed to add a little bit of water to the pellets when SWIG is ready to use them.

SWIG took the pellets instead of his usual flakes and when home to test out the new find. SWIG threw a couple of the pellets in his flask, added a bit of water and some I2. Heated up the flask and to SWIGs suprise the water turned to a dark orange color with a bit of some coming out of the flask. So these pellets do indeed react with I2 once a certain temp. is reached.

Only question is has anyone else heard or used these "pellets" before? And why haven't SWIG seen any info. on the "pellets" before?

[jsorex]

where the hell did you get them? and what do they look like?

[ApprenticeCook]

what were they intended to be used for?? starting fires?

if they react with I2 it doesnt mean they are RP... any RP source these days is haavilly watched, thats why match books are used... only easy way to otc rp.

-AC

[the_wasper]

I thought I was offered a 5 gal bucket of white p, like you describe

[Lestat]

I would give my fucking SOUL for a five gallon bucket of the white gold

[Giver_Hell]

SWIG knows that these "pellets" are not RP. He was just suggesting another route to get the honey without all the tedious hour spend messing with MB.

A friend of SWIGs told him that these "pellets" do the job very similar to the way that H3PO3 does. This friend did note that SWIG came across a rare find as they are are almost unheard by most cook in the surrounding area.

SWIG just wants to heard from someone who has used or even seen these "pellets" before? Maybe even share some info. on them like what the hell the proper name is for them and there use in the real world.

[the_wasper]

it. This was when I first started this "hobby" and I was told it was red phos.The label said simply Phosporus when I peeled the lid off it was white/off white pellets ,I wanted red How can the white bee used.This bucket came from I think a coal company, Didn't ask what it was used for.

[ApprenticeCook]

White phosphorus is poisonous and can spontaneously ignite when it comes in contact with air. For this reason, white phosphorus must be stored under water and is usually used to produce phosphorus compounds. Red phosphorus is formed by heating white phosphorus to 250°C (482°F) or by exposing white phosphorus to sunlight. Red phosphorus is not poisonous and is not as dangerous as white phosphorus, although frictional heating is enough to change it back to white phosphorus.

From

http://education.jlab.org/itselemental/ele015.html

-AC

[Unobtainium]

It sounds like you have a 5 gallon bucket of phosphate rocks.

Whatever it is, it's not white P.

[Scottydog]

Found this in a google search:

"Phosphorus is obtained by processing phosphorus-containing ore, rich in calcium phosphate, into pellets. These pellets, which are the size of marbles, are mixed with coke and gravel, then heated in electric furnaces at temperatures exceeding 1500 degrees Celsius. The resulting chemical reaction produces gaseous phosphorus, which is condensed to liquid form and subsequently processed after cooling.

There are three by-products of the production process. The first, carbon monoxide, is used as fuel in other plants on the site and in a nearby coal-fired power plant. The second, phosphorus slag, is used as a foundation material in road building and hydraulic engineering."

You say a coal company? These pellets could just bee calcium phosphate.  

[biotechdude]

SWIG threw a couple of the pellets in his flask, added a bit of water and some I2. Heated up the flask and to SWIGs suprise the water turned to a dark orange color with a bit of some coming out of the flask. So these pellets do indeed react with I2 once a certain temp. is reached

Perhaps the iodine wasn't 'reacting' with the pellets.  Instead, after heat was applied, the iodine merely dissolved and sublimed with the water.

The pellets could be the Phosphorous compounds other describe and hence didn't react as hoped for to produce HI.

[Giver_Hell]

These pellets, which are the size of marbles, are mixed with coke and gravel

This statement almost insures that they are calcium phosphate. Although they were not the size of marbles they did have what seemed like a few peices of gravel that was mixed along with the pellets in the bag. This confused SWIG as to why or how those small bits of gravel got mixed together. Now it makes sense.

From what very little researching SWIG did on calcium phosphate is enough to tell SWIG that all he purchased was the shit that comes from bones. Its time to hunt down the fucker who fucked SWIG   . Thanks for the help cause SWIG would have hated to fuck up a batch if he would have used this shit.  

[cycosyince]

Hold on, IF that bucket you got IS phosphate material, then all you need is some coke and an AC/DC welder along with two carbon electrodes, and a cinderblock to serve as your chamber. DIG it: drill two holes in a cinderblock across from each other. these will be the electrode holes. In a 3 or 5 gal water bottle make a hole for a 1"id tube and extend it inside a few inches. with a sm section of dryer exaust tube (the accordian stuff) attach one end to the block opening with some epoxy putty, slit the other end a couple inches and funnel it to fit the 1" id tube on the bottle.
To the bottle neck put a stopper with a hole, run a hose to a vacuum source. The vac should be able to draw a constant neg in the block chamber, easier to do with a glass cover over the other wide opening in the block, but the cover should be clear, it is a window. the holes for the electrodes let in enough air to keep from overworking the vacuum if it is suceptible. Add water to the water bottle until the 1" id tube is just under the surface. when you turn on the vac it is like a big waterpipe.
Take them phosphate balls and some coke/charcoal put together in a little cup or saucer shaped crucible that can take the heat. with the welder on, and eyes shielded from the arc, angle the electrodes at a point just over the phosphate and strike an arc. the angle "point" will make a fishtail arc flame that you can manipulate over the phosphate pile. the arc produces the heat that will vaporize the phosphate into phosphorus vapor that when drawn by vacuum into the water, condenses into white phosphorus. white phos is easily converted to red. and a 5 gal bucket of phosphate is easily a couple of pounds of elemental phosphorus.
you lucky dog...
Safety and knowledge of the dangers of phosphorus are without question a priority, the rewards possible are surpassed only by 100 lbs of psudo falling unnoticed into your playpen.

[Lestat]

You do know that you need exceptionally high temperatures for this don't you, about 1200 degrees C off the top of my head.

That is a VERY nice idea with the vacuum pump though, I have to get building a furnace

[aia2]

That is a VERY nice idea with the vacuum pump though, I have to get building a furnace

Please, not in your parents' basement.

Seriously, this is one of the more dangerous ways to get precursors I've read about.  Unless you really know what you're doing, don't do this.

Honestly, if bees are willing to try something like this, why don't we see more posts about biosynthing E or converting urea to H₃PO₃?

[Edit]
Hmm, did some UTFSEing and converting urea to H₃PO₃ is completely imaginary, don't know what I was thinking.
[/Edit]

[Lestat]

[ApprenticeCook]

Lestat-->

about 1200 degrees C off the top of my head

Look a few posts up, scottydog says - temperatures exceeding 1500 degrees Celsius

The resulting chemical reaction produces gaseous phosphorus, which is condensed to liquid form and subsequently processed after cooling.

Ahhh really who wants to do this? esp getting gaseous phase of something described as easily ignitable in air and must be stored under water.....  

[cycosyince]

Dangerous? No, QUITE dangerous. Like gas welding. Like crab fishing in the north sea. Like driving in L.A. or living around three mile island. Do you think that any of the processes involved in the magic making of meth are totally without risk? Have a flash fire or a flask explode in your hand, and you understand just how dangerous cooking a lil dope gets. Personally doing pulls ala straight to E if done without key ventilation, and anywhere near sparks or pilot lights overlooked, is my idea of a bomb that can kill instantly. THAT is why safety is so fucking important, and cannot be overstated. Common sense is a tool of the succesful cook and of the DIYer. If you play with fire you can get burned, that why you wear protective gear made for those who might have to play with fire. You get the equipment that makes it safer to be manipulating that fire, and you keep your wits about you, instead of being an idiot. The idiot will learn the hard way, and/or become the example for those who use knowledge to thier advantage.

If you want to bake some cake and cookies, ya gotta bust open some eggs.
If you want more RP than you could use up in a lifetime of cooking, you can make it all in one weeks worth of effort and planning. However it IS dangerous. Exactly what it has to be to keep you from getting too damn cocky.

Producing phosphorus back in 1872 is REALLY SCARY! The welder/carbon electrodes are what makes the clandestine pose I offered much more doable and way faster. Albiet there can be some risks, just like running with scissors.
the temprature of the arc and the fishtail flame is up around 1500C which is plenty hot enough to vaporise the phosphate material, when the material is vaporus, it is easy to move within a current of air. So you draw it via vacuum to the medium that it is most safely stored, water. when the vapor touches the water, it is cooled and it hardens into a solid. Being heavier than water it sinks to the bottom of the vessle in pieces known as White Phosphorus. All that remains is converting it to red.
You know I have an article from the 1920s on how to construct a benchtop electric arc furnace complete with water resistor, with which it is able to produce the arc from the common house 120v recepticle for melting small amounts of metal, and at the end of the article it suggests a fume cabinet be used for arsnic and phosphorus experiments "...as the fumes from these elements are quite poisonus..." From this I have to assume that a welder isn't even a must, just some AC from the wall... I will produce a write up on that furnace and the H2O resistor in its own post, unless it has been written by one who read the same???
Just don't attempt anything you aren't comfortable with, or unable to provide for with a minimum of the needed safety.

[toltec]

It seams to me we had someone her that actually done this on top of his apartmaent building in a furnaces. Any body recall what i am talking about or how it trurned out.It was
along,time ago