Author Topic: why iso..??  (Read 157108 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.


  • Guest
why iso..??
« on: August 09, 2004, 11:21:00 PM »
yes, I picked iospropyl because it was on my kitchen cupboard shelf. It also smells a bit less than denatured alcohol. I did a quick calculation today, and if you add about 35 ml of that 300 g/l KOH solution to get about 10 grams of KOH, you'll also be adding around 20 ml of water...this was just quick off the top of the head without calculating density...etc...that would be a bit short of the 9% water used in the trial runs if 250 to 300 ml of isopropyl was used to pull those 100 pills. It's just much simpler to use pellets. I have no idea how much water in iso would be harmful, but once it forms layers on you, you know you have way too much water.


  • Guest
and then figuring density...
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2004, 02:42:00 AM »
I have no idea what the density of 300 g/l KOH solution is, but 1.5 is a good guess. If one has to add 35 ml of this solution to get 10 grams of KOH, then the 35 ml would weigh around 50 grams, and the remaining 40 grams would be water. That would be a bit much for 300 ml of anhydrous isopropyl, but maybe not so much that layers would form. Somebody I know has to fool around with KOH and alcohol solutions to see at what point layers form with added water.


  • Guest
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2004, 11:01:00 AM »
When using red dots if you remove the red die first most of the filtration problems leaves with the die. The die itself is hell on filters clogging them almost as soon as it comes into contact..


  • Guest
So if im correct this method wont work that...
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2004, 03:42:00 PM »
So if im correct this method wont work that good on pseudo sulfate?


  • Guest
thank you for carring about the little guy Uncel
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2004, 04:22:00 AM »
I guess swim's a newbee,he useto be multy oz dreamer and was good at going natsi stile :) ,but many things have changed for him sence then.                                                                     Now swi7 is tryn 2 do a nano and dien with all these preblems tryn to extract clean pseudo. so far swi7 is in the hole about 100$ in pseudo and solvents.   
    But he'll keep reading and keep try'n and Im shure he'll get it.


  • Guest
pseudo sulfate
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2004, 01:54:00 AM »
Is pseudo sulfate difficult to get dissolved in alcohol? If so, a bit of HCl in the extraction alcohol might help....otherwise I can see no reason why pseudo sulfate pills wouldn't behave in a similar way...


  • Guest
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2004, 12:25:00 PM »
meth-hcl is soluble 1:5 in chloroform, does pseudo have thet same property, if so what about the new gakks, just a thought


  • Guest
ephedrine pill extraction
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2004, 01:56:00 AM »
This one takes me back to wher I started on this subject a year ago in the Pill Fuckers at it Again thread.
Gas station ephedrine pills were ground up in a blender with no solvent pre-soak. They were then extracted with portions of 91% isopropyl alcohol. This pill formulation turned out to be a filter clogging type, so after soaking and swirling, it was allowed to settle and the soak was decanted. Then several more alcohol soaks were done over a period of several hours. This resulted in a milky looking solution that was allowed to settle overnight.
   The almost clear alcohol extract was poured off the settled debris, and put into a beaker. It was put on the stove at med heat and set to boiling. As it got warm, roughly 12 grams KOH per 100 of the 25 mg ephedrine plus 200 mg guifenesin pills was added.
As it got boiling, the initially kind of clear solution turned a pale yellow, then a yellow oil layer formed at the bottom of the beaker. There was a fairly large amount of the oil compared to a similar number of sudafed pills. Boiling was continued for 25 minutes.
When the beaker had cooled down, the liquid was poured into a sep funnel. The oil layer was drained off, and the alcohol put back into a beaker. It was slowly evaporated down. The alcohol was of a kind of cloudy appearance.
When the alcohol was almost all gone, roughly 70 ml of water was added to the beaker for each 100 pills used. It was swirled around to dissolve the stuff at the bottom of the beaker, and poured into a sep funnel. Then about 50 ml of naptha (actual solvent used:hexane)was put into the beaker to clean up some more. This wash was put into the sep funnel as well.
The sep funnel was shaken, and after a bit of time to let the layers settle, the water was drained off. This was followed by another water wash, which too was drained away.
Finally, the naptha(hexane) layer was poured into a beaker, allowed to sit for a couple hours to shed water, then poured into another beaker and gassed with dry HCl. Yield roughly 70% of what seems to be nice ephedrine HCl. Perhaps it is time to start with recrystallization experiments.


  • Guest
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2004, 02:27:00 AM »
UncleFester: I'm not sure of the relevency here or if this might help but IPA is used to make eudragit and while the KOH is proven to deal with that part, my thought is that if another alky was used as the extractant, the KOH part wouldn't bee overburdened as much.
If you get my drift.
I could be wrong about that but it's just a hunch.
Maybe Denat or methanol might improve yields and reduce that milkiness.


  • Guest
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2004, 02:12:00 AM »
Those gas station pills were the ones which a year ago got me interested in these new pill formulations. They were the WORST ever seen. If the KOH method should fail on them, one wouldn't want to be wondering if it was because of a switch to different alcohol type.
I have no idea if 95%EtOH is as good or better than 91% iso. That would make an interesting line of experimentation.


  • Guest
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2004, 02:36:00 AM »
Ibee is my name
Refinement is my game :P
If it can be made better...
We'll see to it!
The KOH method is a valid reliable method so there should be little doubt about which side blindsided which in a drunken stupor over tech-killa brands.
Thanx Uncle!


  • Guest
beautifuly done fester
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2004, 03:10:00 AM »
swims BEEn waiting pationtly 2 c the the results from these efed pills as swim would like 2 bee dreamn with'm.
  still have yet 2 secure KOH .
   so bee's been play'n with EvlScrip's tetra/spd & cant help but wonder ? Evl if you got KOH why is tetra /spd ur wash of choise ?  Just ask'N.


  • Guest
ephedrine pill residue
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2004, 10:49:00 PM »
74, just to let you know, the residue after evaporating away the iso after the KOH boil amounts to almost one half ml per pill put into the mix. It is a jelly at room temp, but it mixes with warm water. Just a small detail I left out of the process writeup. Those 200 mg guifenesin pills are a cesspool of slop.


  • Guest
more on slop residue
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2004, 03:19:00 AM »
They really go heavy with the detergents on this formulation, but following this procedure they will be down the drain where they belong. The other wierd stuff in this formula either gets cleaved, or doesn't show its stuff. It's kind of funny how easy they are when done right.


  • Guest
source for KOH
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2004, 06:18:00 AM »
Anybee having trouble finding KOH just go to the search engine and put in Potassium Hydroxide. It will pull up all you need.
 Just to BEE safe though, it should be sent to a safehouse.


  • Guest
some interesting htoughts on IPA's
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2004, 10:31:00 AM »
91% seem to have glycerin or something to that affect, it leaves a film of sorts on things, 99% seems to as well but not as noticeably. the red hot ISO bottles of gas line water remover from swibbs experience has some sort of metal, or or other heavy compound that has a bluish tint after evaping. anyone else notice anything of the sort?
swibb's recently been using a slightly more expensive 99.9% anyhdrous IPA from a fry shop for computers. swibb's noticed it has a far less noticeable smell as well. anyway.


  • Guest
According to the LIT!
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2004, 07:32:00 PM »
Ethanol has superior qualities in comparison to the common alky's for bee's purposes as they relate to popular pass-times around here.
But that's according to the Lit from some pretty reliable authoritive documents.
Some try to sideline the facts with discussion of preferences, and to them I say "Whatever floats yer boat, SWIM!" :P
Whatever the preference, you can't change scientific fact or molecular affinity!
I've always had a strong affinity to things with strong affinities for the things I have an affinity to! :P
For those that have an affinity for IPA in extractions that are riddled with eudragit, I can only suggest a side by side trial experiment (double-blind for those with an affinity toward getting soused :-[ )
One with IPA, the other with ethanol(grain alky in most states).
And for those with unswayable preferences, Let your aquired taste decide for itself which one works best.
For me....The Proof is in my Pudding! :)
I recall seeing a post by the chief Rhodium stating that his locale presented aquistion difficulties for the purer ethanols. And Dwarfer stated marvin can't find grain alky on the left coast. Is that the case in most states due to ABC and ATF restrictions. I do recall a burst of Campus Related Hazing incidents resulting in alky related deaths some time back that would explain tighter restrictions but not an all out abolishment of EverClear(grain).


  • Guest
hardware store denatured alcohol
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2004, 03:34:00 AM »
The Merck Index lists a series of formulations for the denatured ethyl alcohol found in the paint section of hardware stores. All the formulations start with 95% EtOH, and then to that various additives are mixed in to make it undrinkable. It is a lot smellier than 190 proof vodka or 91% iso-OH, but should be functional for the purpose.


  • Guest
The Nature of Denatured Alkie
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2004, 06:50:00 AM »
Do the additives put into denatured ethanol have an effect on it's particular 'affinity' to do what bees need to with it?

And could the ethanol within bee purified by simple distillation?

(Question almost but not quite unrelated to this forum.) What would it take to get the denatured into a "drinkable" form?


  • Guest
KOH Evap
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2004, 07:48:00 AM »
swim found KOH in drain cleaner, no other chemicals listed but has bleach smell. evapped down to pretty white crystals, will this work if dry and bleach smell is gone?