The Vespiary

The Hive => Stimulants => Topic started by: evilscripter69 on October 10, 2004, 02:57:00 AM

Title: Ghetto FB extraction w/ 80% + returns
Post by: evilscripter69 on October 10, 2004, 02:57:00 AM
how does 12.5 g. FB return from 6/20 ct generic 120's sound ?
also tested on 60's with chlor and or trip, as well as highly gakked red hots.
follow directions closely  because too much NH3 will fuck it up, causing a large yeild loss
This is a variation on the Tetra Trap method and has also been very successful using only sodium carbonate without TCE,although this required adding a small amount of NH3 when the pillmass started to clump while heating,only add enough to make it pasty again a spray bottle on mist setting works best
the pills can be combined with same results
#1combine all the pills with an equal amount of sodium carbonate and grind to a fine powder in a heavy duty coffee grinder or blender. let it sit for 5 minutes
#2place pillmass in visionware/corningware casserole dish,spray a small amount of TCE into it, enough to slightly wetten the pillmass,it should still be  dry and clumpy at this point
#3cover pillmass with a minimum of 1" Xylene/Toulene(dont use naptha or the return will not be as high) now add NH3 while gently heating, A spray bottle on mist setting works very well.Stir contiunously while adding NH3 until the pill mass becomes a fluid paste,Keep stirring and increase heat until a gentle boil starts, this allows the NH3 to evaporate, SWIM uses a respirator while doing this, suggest you do too.while still hot filter the NP through 1 coffee filter.Immediately add more NP to cover pilmass to a minimum of 1/3 inch. More  than that is ok but evaporating solvents is a nasty task.quickly bring this up to a boil and filter through same coffee filter
#4evaporate the NP in front of a box fan or however you prefer to do it,heating the NP solution to about 95 deg one time before evapping it speeds up process
#4come back later to find a solid carpet of good size FB crystals,
Short Path Distillation of the FB will eliminate any gakk as long as you dont rush things and overheat the pillmass(
be sure to evap all the solvent from the FB before starting SPD,failure to do so will prevent the snowstorm effect making it more difficult to fine  tune temp. as well as causing the FB to stick to the sides of the horizontal pipe and flask making it more difficult to get the FB out when finished, a small aquarium pump as a air supply will work, but a vacuum source is better becauese theres fewer clogs of the pipe  and better control of the flow.
#5[/red]bring up temperature slowly untill you see what looks like snowflakes falling out in flsk, when this hapens start up airflow untill you see q flow of glittery xtals moving down pipe and slowly falling out to bottom of tube. If you get this right  most of the FB will be in the tube dry and ready to react, this eliminates a final solvent evaporation and is the exact temperature desired.
Any suggestions to the design are welcome.
Enjoy some real fine FB to react ghetto as hell and also the most effective methos SWIM has found, unlike KOH all the pills can be processed together brand name, other actives have not had any effects so far, even used the blue  tabs with diphenhydramine, although that required the filtering of the large gakk free FB crystals from the xylene while evapping at room temp, these crash out before the fine sugary diphenhydramine xtals did. By the way these were found to be gakk free with burn test without need of spd! cleanest burning pfed SWIM has seen this year, turned clear as water and just vanished, SWIM encourages more rersearch using pills with other actives, as this has worked on every brand and type tested so far
Title: Nice Work...
Post by: wareami on October 10, 2004, 06:53:00 PM
Nice work Bro!
However I will finish reading it if I figure out how to transport the post to the 51" bigscreen TV :-[  ;D

You should have editting still active.
I resized it fer ya!
Put this:
in it's place inbetween the upload tags. ;)

Title: Kudos
Post by: geezmeister on October 10, 2004, 07:15:00 PM
Kudos on following up on the concept and establishing a workable solution! This is actually much easier and much less complex than it seems at first. Your polish on Prepuce's concept is another example of clandestine chemists exchanging ideas and interacting to solve the common problems. Great work..!

Title: Yet another great FB yield
Post by: abominator on October 15, 2004, 11:41:00 AM
From all the info swim has gathered seems that FB rxns are preferable to pseudo HCl rxns.  Geezmeister said at first he thought the yields with FB were better, but with experience he found that he could get the same yields with Hcl.  Jacked says it(freebase pfed) makes better dope in a recent post, that was enough for swim to dream FB in the future.

Title: dry ice
Post by: evilscripter69 on October 18, 2004, 06:10:00 AM
Latest modification...  use dry ice to cool the horizontal tube, also use cold naptha in recieving flask. this keeps the FB in precipitation, easily filtered, the dry ice allows faster airflow and condenses the fb before it hits the trap. keeping it from dissolving in the naptha
Title: Great idea
Post by: abominator on October 19, 2004, 11:59:00 AM
You suggest keeping the Naptha cold in the recieving flask.  I assume you are talking about an icebath for it?  Good idea, keep the FB precipitated.

Wonder just how cold the Naptha must bee before it gives UP the pfed?

Title: naptha temp
Post by: geezmeister on October 19, 2004, 01:16:00 PM
room temperature naptha will dissolve a small amount of pseudo freebase. Even ice cold, not all of the pseudo freebase will crystallize out of the naptha... some remains dissolved. If you don't believe me, gas the naptha after you filter the pseudo freebase crystals out, or titrate it.

Cold naptha just doesn't hold as much pseudo freebase, and the difference is significant... but never assume that ice cold naptha will not dissolve some freebase pseudo.

Title: NH3
Post by: bigdumbnut on October 22, 2004, 11:52:00 AM
When you refer to spraying NH3 on the pill mass you are refering to a water ammonia solution aren't you?
Title: yep...
Post by: geezmeister on October 22, 2004, 12:38:00 PM
He means for you to use ammonium hydroxide, not anhydrous ammonia. Non-sudsing household ammonia will work. A stronger version is available at outlets for janitorial supplies.

Title: steps please
Post by: lsd on October 23, 2004, 03:53:00 PM
After reading I am confused. Am told to dissolve etc but were does the apparatus come into play?Sorry but I just don't follow.
Title: TCE replacement?
Post by: thinkpol on October 24, 2004, 12:45:00 AM
For those in places where TCE is hard to obtain, is there any replacement that would be suited?

Any suggestions would be much appreciated :)

Title: Re: This is a variation on the Tetra Trap...
Post by: abominator on October 24, 2004, 07:22:00 AM

This is a variation on the Tetra Trap method and has also been very successful using only sodium carbonate without TCE,

As far as swim knows, there is no solvent that will replicate what TCE does.  Maybe try it without the TCE? 

DCM is another chlorinated solvent, but no substitute for tetra.

Title: new gaaks!!!
Post by: lsd on October 26, 2004, 04:56:00 AM
Title: Questions
Post by: Xavl2 on October 27, 2004, 03:40:00 AM
A few questions:

* What exactly is the purpose of ammonia water? Suzy is already freebased with sodium carbonate?

* When you pull the NP, wouldn't you pull a bit of TCE with it too and get the gakks dissolved in TCE? Is TCE miscible with NP (swim never used TCE)?

* You say this works WITHOUT TCE also. Without pre-boils in acetone and toluene, prior to basing, wouldn't the toluene pull the gakks together with freebase suzy when you mix with sodium carbonate?
Title: And another one...
Post by: Xavl2 on October 27, 2004, 03:42:00 AM
* How do you get rid of the antihistamines? Swim thought acetone boils was the only way prior to basing.
Title: why ammonia water
Post by: geezmeister on October 27, 2004, 07:01:00 AM
Sodium carbonate needs to dissolve in water to be really effective as a base. The water in the ammonium hydroxide will do that. The ammonia is also a base. It has, s Prepuce noted, a distinct effect on the pill mass.  While we do not know in particular why it works as it does, if you give it a try you may be surprised.

The TCE is used to keep the pill mass fluid and to hang onto the polys it loves to attach to. it helps hold them in the pill mass rather than releasing them to the extraction solvent.

Or so I understand the concept, anyway.

Title: Hmmm... so what happened to waterless ...
Post by: Xavl2 on October 27, 2004, 08:48:00 AM
Hmmm... so what happened to waterless extractions? Swim thought it was old news that water activates some gakks?

Swim soaks PM in acetone over night, then 3 boils in toluene. Then mix with sodium carbonate and added MeOH to make the pill mass moist. MeOH dissolves suzy and lets it react with solid carbonate. 3 Tol pulls yield 70% - 75% freebase that leaves a minute tiny stain on glass when burnt.
Title: If TCE is not used..
Post by: thinkpol on October 27, 2004, 02:36:00 PM
Should an alternative per se be utilised to wetten the pillmass, or should this step be ignored?

Title: different approaches
Post by: geezmeister on October 27, 2004, 05:40:00 PM
Xavl2--  Gakk-saturated TCE cannot hold  the pseudo that elutes as the base is mobilized by the addition of water; the water is added in small amounts to a pill mass that is just saturated with the water-immiscible solvent. The binders which would release when wetted are either saturated with TCE and do not release, or the foilants released by water are held by the TCE in the pill mass slurry. TCE is poorly miscible in most nonpolar solvents, and practically immiscible in naptha and xylene. The TCE holds the pill mass in a slurry, the slurry holds most gakks, and the freebase pseudo elutes to the extraction solvent. The method allows the use of some in basing the pseudo even when water activated encapsulators are present in the pill formula.

Your yields appear to be optimal for the method you use.   :)

Title: Blue 60's with diphenhydramine
Post by: evilscripter69 on October 29, 2004, 11:35:00 AM
ungakked pills may be utilized, the benadryl use Tetra Trap procedure with toluene and heat the filtered NP close to boiling. Set out the pan in a ventilated location, as the NP evaportates the pfed crashes out first  8)
Title: SWIM hasn't found a pill
Post by: evilscripter69 on November 03, 2004, 11:12:00 AM
that he wasn't able to pull :)  SPD has not been unecessary when the pseudo was filtered from the tolly as soon as it crashed out of solution, and a following rinse with cold dH2O was performed,

More coming later.