Author Topic: future of safrole  (Read 25303 times)

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psychokitty

  • Guest
Clove Oil is good enough
« Reply #80 on: July 18, 2004, 06:02:00 AM »
". . . whereas eugenol has to be distilled (several times maybe) to get a pure starting compound..."

The above statement is total bullshit.  Clove oil is nearly virtually 100% eugenol and is readily available OTC just about everywhere. 

Use as is directly in any reaction you feel necessary.

ApprenticeCook

  • Guest
Hey all, Psycokitty, i have seen clove LEAF...
« Reply #81 on: July 18, 2004, 11:34:00 AM »
Hey all,

Psycokitty, i have seen clove LEAF and clove BUD oil, which one is more eugenol or is it the same?

And as for methylation, the link above from armageddon for the Kf/DMF/DBM provides high yields with as stated no (or very little) by products or polys... where as the DCM/NaOH method has far lower yields with the problem of poly's of the catchetols.
Im still yet to be convinced about a reliable and good yielding OTC (or close to otc) method for demthylation, the closest iv seen is the AlI3/PTC method as seen on rhodiums site, still yet to find a easily obtainable PTC.
TBAB could be made with only 4 non OTC purchases, n-butanol, potassium dichromatem, acetonitrile and NaBr. (NaBr OTC??), as for acetonitrille, could be made from chloromethane and sodium cyanide? any other way which could be made otc'ish....?
Butanol -->oxid--> butanal
NH4Cl (from many sources) -->NaOH--> NH4OH
6Butanal + NH4OH --> tributylamine + 3butyric acid (right?)
2NaBr + H2SO4 --> 2HBr + Na2SO4
HBr + Butanol --> H2O + butylbromide
butylbromide + tributylamine -->acetonitrille-->TBAB
Right?

Well thats some food for thought...
PTC ideas anyone? (rhodium put forward PEG-400, but where to buy?)

-AC


armageddon

  • Guest
no bullshit
« Reply #82 on: July 18, 2004, 02:01:00 PM »
". . . whereas eugenol has to be distilled (several times maybe) to get a pure starting compound..."

The above statement is total bullshit.  Clove oil is nearly virtually 100% eugenol and is readily available OTC just about everywhere.


Stop! I didn't say distilling eugenol is necessary - only that vanillin has without doubt a higher grade of purity (FOOD GRADE) WITHOUT having to purify, whereas eugenol from essential oils is a natural product - and you have to distill to get a similar purity..

This is absolutely NO bullshit, and BTW not every bee uses essential oils containing 100% eugenol (as you might know! AppCook for example might use clove bud or leaf oil - both contain eugenol, but they surely aren't BOTH 100% pure!!)...

Maybe you can well use clove oil without purifying it - but when you analyze clove oil GC/MS, you'll NEVER get ONE peak - probably more with food grade vanillin..

And if you like using the purest chemicals possible, distillation of eugenol is necessary. quot.

A


ApprenticeCook

  • Guest
Acetonitrile.... another way....
« Reply #83 on: July 19, 2004, 02:26:00 PM »
Acetonitrile.... another way.... maybe a little more OTC??

NH4Cl -->NaOH+heat--> H2O + NH3(gas) + NaCl
NH3 + GAA --> Acetamide + H2O
Acetamide -->P2O5--> Acetonitrile + H2O
?
Access to P2O5 is not so bad... once again not OTC but it would be explainable... glass manufacture i think?

And permangentate could be used to create butanal instead of dichromate, constant distillation of the more volitile butanal could save an ok yield???

Also..... butane gas refils.... could these be used as a source? they are butane, couldnt these be sprayed over a heated copper plate to be oxid to butanol's?? then seperated by disto of the different isomers?

Thoughts on this and my above mention of TBAB?

-AC


lutesium

  • Guest
Aldehydes can be reduced to alcohols and ...
« Reply #84 on: July 21, 2004, 06:15:00 PM »

armageddon

  • Guest
right thought - but..
« Reply #85 on: July 22, 2004, 03:44:00 AM »
Although this is only true with BENZaldehydes (acetaldehyde will never result in benzyl chloride  ;) ) - everything else is correct so far.

But unfortunately this thread is not about how to get active compounds from (benz)aldehydes; but rather about how to make 3,4-methylenedioxy stuff from either 3,4-dihydroxy or 3-Meo-4-OH substituted aldehydes (or from similar compounds).

Your suggested reactions assume that one has piperonal - this thread is about how to make it...

Greetz A