Your right. See, the procedure is really a failsafe softly softly approach, which costs mainly time, but it is fail-safe.
But I agree, all the diluting isn't really necessary and leaving it out would bee optimal.
So in step 1: Don't dilute your 100ml of 400g/L foliar solution.
As for the Hcl it should bee diluted to a concentration where the individual bee is comfortable working with, with cold water. 50-100ml is fine.
Yeah but the alcohol moves the equilibrium drammatically in the H3PO3's favour
Also I doubt whether those numbers hold true in most cases.
i.e. If you have 100ml of pure water, add 35g of Kcl and 30g of H3PO3. The Kcl will precipitate I think.
Precisely, DCM is non-polar and can extract Kcl from aqueous solutions, see? It's just a matter of whether it also extracts H3PO3, it can bee tested because I'm interested but you'll have to wait!
In any case these types of solutions, extra steps and changes are for a different write-up. That's why it's called the simple extraction of H3PO3 from foliar solutions.
abolt: H3PO3's incompatible with strong oxidizers, so sulfuric is a horrid choice
The charcoal step is for removing oxygen from the atmosphere, not for drying.
Although that could bee a problem, the carbon getting saturated with OH/H2O vapour.
I thought about the charcoal, I think it would bee an excellent addition to remove O2. But not only for covering the evaporation dish, also add a tray of it on a lower level in the lab oven while pre-heating...as the air in a fan-forced oven is probably mostly circulated for efficiency.
Maybee even better(!) would bee an oven safe carbon filter hanging by some means (wire) at the back of the oven in front of the fan. Or ALL of these additions.
Covering the evaporation tray probably has the most questions hanging over it, doesn't it?
I think if you put a tray of AC on the bottom shelf, and a home-made (any ideas?) carbon filter hung in front of the fan by a wire to each of the side-rails, then placing one over the evaporation dish can bee omitted.
These are the types of changes that can bee made while maintaining simplicity:
1.Changes to dilutions/concentrations of Hcl and the foliar solution.
2.Changes to the rate at which the Hcl is added. i.e you can add it in one addition if you want to
3.Pre-heating the evaporation dish.
4.Any other little shit that you are prepared to change in exchange for no garantees by me that it will work, because I havent tested it.
5.Changes to the heat of both the OH or the temperature of the Kcl/H3PO3 before pulling.
6.Evaporating more water off before the H3PO3 pulls (and OH addition to precipitate out Kcl)
7.Activated carbon relating to the oven already discussed.
Good Bees recycle their solvents and alcohols. Utilising MeOH is the simplest way to do this, plus it has the added bonus of less water.
Very true, good idea. But many bees would rather bee caught with methylated spirits.
Shorty that's just the sort of hands on know-how we needed thanks! Okay so fridges aren't really feasable.
So whats the most basic setup and conditions for this type of vacuum dry do you think?
Hey abolt next time you use that drying technique, add phosphorous pentoxide to the sulfuric. I think it might work even better.
Scottydog, thank you
don't test the sulfuric acid thing! Itll fuck it up hardcore.
Hey thats interesting scotty! So you think it's mainly water causing the problems?
How long and how big were those cooks man?
So you got no visual reaction or no conversion going by bioessay?
For drying your stuff...Pre-heat your oven and evap tray, put your soggy shit on there...heat it 70-90 for 10-15min take it out of the oven cover it with plastic-wrap with absorbant paper taped to the inner side to absorb moisture and steam. place in the freezer...itll bee dry.
Oh yeah this is what I found.
If you don't use the absorbant paper with a drying agent taped to the plastic-wrap, you'll still get the nice wax, but it'll have some crystaline water upon freezing scattered over its surface.
If you do use the paper/drying agent patch, itll have a smooth surface upon freezing, no crystaline water from frozen steam.
Keep it in a dry place, avoid humidity. freezer is perfect.
Johndee was way too high, too.