Author Topic: New Straight to E -- a novel extraction tech.  (Read 58282 times)

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VideoEditor

  • Guest
red hots
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2003, 11:00:00 AM »
Can you please define low yeild on red hots in % terms. Swive was averaging about 75%-80% on reds and up to 99% on generic white 60's. Also are the reds completely dried after the de-red process? they may contain a sig amount of water/ acetone if not dried. This would effect the extraction.


geezmeister

  • Guest
Alls well that ends well
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2003, 06:19:00 PM »
MnkyBoy: The proof is in the final product! Since the 120's tend to be the proving grounds for most new gakks, they are an excellent test of how well the method isolates the pseudo from the newer gakks we've been up against. I look forward to your results!

Your report of higher yields than we are used to from these pills is indeed excellent news!


Jacked

  • Guest
Micro bees
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2003, 06:53:00 PM »
For the bees that will be trying a microwave to do this bee careful, Alcohol will superheat just like water and disturbing the surface of a superheated liquid could result in serious burns.. I believe this has been covered before with H20 as example for the ones who don't know what superheating is or how dangerous it can be try running a search here for more info...


geezmeister

  • Guest
acetone
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2003, 08:56:00 PM »
qwerty: if you cannot acquire any MEK, use acetone. They have very similar characteristics. They are not identical, however, and MEK seems to offer some advantages in this application.


VideoEditor

  • Guest
Micro's & Acetone and more
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2003, 10:04:00 PM »
The major differences between MEK and acetone are:

-- Yeild --
Psuedo is not soluable in MEK
Psuedo is slightly soluable in acetone

-- Cleaning --
Both are ketones, but I believe that MEK is more aggressive in this application. MEK dissolves just about any kind of plastic, most epoxies, PVC and rubber.

PLEASE DO NOT Confuse
MEK (METHYL ETHYL KETONE)
with MEKP (METHYL ETHYL KETONE PEROXIDE)

MEK Health Hazard Data

LD50-LC50 Mixture: TLV: 200 PPM
Route Of Entry - Inhalation: YES
Route Of Entry - Skin: YES
Route Of Entry - Ingestion: YES
Health Haz Acute And Chronic: EYES: SEVERLY IRRITATING. IF NOT REMOVED
PROMPTLY, MAY RESULT IN PERMANENT DAMAGE. SKIN: PROLONGED CONTACT MAY
IRRITATE AND CAUSE DERMITITIS. INHALATION: VAPORS ARE IRRITATING TO
RESPIRATORY TRACT AND MAY AFFECT THE CNS. INGESTION: LIQUID ASPIRATED INTO
THE RESPIRATORY SYSTEM DURING INGESTION MAY CAUSE PULMONARY EDEMA.
Carcinogenicity - NTP: NO
Carcinogenicity - IARC: NO
Carcinogenicity - OSHA: NO
Explanation Carcinogenicity: THE COMPONENTS OF THIS PRODUCT HAVE NOT SHOWN
ANY EVIDENCE OF BEING CARCINOGENIC.
Signs/Symptoms Of Overexp: INHALATION: MAY CASUE HEADACHE AND DIZZINESS.
Med Cond Aggravated By Exp: NONE SPECIFIED BY MANUFACTURER.
Emergency/First Aid Proc: EYES: FLUSH WITH LARGE AMOUNT OF WATER. GET
MEDICAL ATTENTION. SKIN: REMOVE CONTAMINATED CLOTHING. WASH AREA WITH SOAP
AND WATER. GET MEDICAL ATTENTION IF IRRITATION PERSISTS. INHALATION: REMOVE
DO NOT INDUCE VOMITING. KEEP AT REST. GET MEDICAL ATTENTION

Ahh I new the "can I mircowave it?" question would come up soon.  My reason for not using a microwave is that it is critical you monitor the temperature as you boil off the alcohol.  I do not have a thermometer that works in my micro so the hotplate became the best bet. Why is it critical to monitor? We need to hit that magic temp of 105c and you cannot just eyball it. 95c and 105c visually will look the same. Also as the temperature rises from the alcohol evaporating, the rate of increase is not linear. It accelerates. VM&P Naptha has a boiling range from about 95C all the way to over 220C so if you heat it too fast, it is possible to overshoot 105c and start to fry the psuedo. I could not control it well enough in my micro to be consistent.

-peace


cks

  • Guest
qwerty, MEKP
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2003, 10:15:00 PM »
Qwerty, if you haven't checked on the net or read MSDS papers on MEKP, stay away.  Would be very dangerous and very bad idea.  I used to work with MEKP daily at a fiberglass shop.

Glacial_Refluxer

  • Guest
acetone tests
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2003, 10:49:00 PM »
Swim rinsed exactly 1 gram of pseudo in 200ml of hot dry
acetone, panned off then evaporated the acetone only to
discover around a milligram of pseudo [.0011g]

Swim also tried with non-dried acetone and discovered
nearly 10mg [.009g]

So if you cannot aquire mek or just dont want the extra can
of solvent in your lab like swim then anhydrous actone
seems to bee a great alternative unless a mg per gram loss
bothers you.

Swim keeps only 3 solvents: acetone for flashing/washing
crystals, vm&p naptha for this great extraction, and xylene
for this great extraction and a/b extractions.


mickyfinn

  • Guest
Winding to E
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2003, 12:17:00 AM »

Ahh I knew the "can I mircowave it?" question would come up soon.




SWIM wishes one thing in each process wouldn't fubar SWIM's dream...

The first run at STE was killer...there was problem with rxn however which is SWIM fault for not getting better ballon (however, hadn't planned to reflux it over 6 hours), still have the wad of rp/i2 (?) that looks like clay and the "product" never appeared despite numerous attempts at "finding" it after ker-flunking it. See

Post 439028

(mickyfinn: "Curbshot Nano Redeux...", Stimulants)

So, SWIM sets that aside and grabs 8G worth of 120's and promptly falls asleep just before the extraction phase...next morning all seems to be welll when the psuedo starts charging out as indicated.

(<inser action="the popping sound you hear is that of SWIM's head going UP his ass." />

To be fair to our hero, not known for world class huffing, he has been forced to stay in close proximity to the microwave which has been eminating fumes for days now. There is air flow of sorts but the close proximity of neighbors precludes outside venting)


SWIM gets great idea to add more broken glass to the pyrex bowl to keep a more even boil flowing, thus staying at 105 longer/easier and pulling all the psuedo. Well, SWIM not clearly thinking the process through as SWIM used NORMAL broken glass.

YEP: SWIM wonders why all of the sudden SWIM's cooking popcorn....POP!  POP!  popopopPOP!

Well, our hero couldn't seem to see that 2+2=4 so he proceeded to:

1) added more naptha (ran out of VM&P)
2) added more ISO
3) transferred liquid to different containers
4) probably more stupidity but you get the picture

(<inser action="the popping sound you hear is that of SWIM's head COMING OUT his ass and that of his psuedo bursting into the void" /)

An idea dawns on SWIM, then grows to an epiphany and ultimately turns into the realization that SWIM just FUBAR'd the UNFUBARable. SWIM put normal and colored glass in with his boriscilicate pieces. Yield low in the 1-2G maybe...

So now time coming when SWIM needs to have (sh*t=together) so he obtains 96 and 48 Red 60's. He'd been sticking with the white's till now but since he just saw that the 60's can be de-redded with acetone/denatured he figured to try them. Well, it disintegrated the 48 walfred and left red on the 96. So he added DH20 now he's left with some orange tint mass. This is OG he presumes? If these are de-redded then he will proceed with STE and return after this is completed.

In the meantime, SWIM would welcome URL or indication of what he should use to look up information that will solve his multiple problem subset.

1)Can he toss back the rp/i2 clay with some psuedo and re-fire to reflux for 36 hours?
2)The results of titrating rxn fluid and extracting supposed final yield that has been sitting from a previous dream is crystalized in two different glass dishes but SWIM doesn't know what it is? Doesn't appear to be final product...can this be re-titrated? Attempted to wash one with acetone and it's not proceeding very well....

SWIM thinks if he can just see what each rabbit looks like at each phase of the magic act he would have a pretty good handle on things.

To anyone who would help SWIM (or has thus far) he is deeply in your debt.




SANTA

  • Guest
weight of powder
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2003, 12:21:00 AM »
swims can't wait to try.swims was about to do a stb extrac.
with 13 boxes of 120's when he spilled a handful not sure how much in weight.
can anybody tell swims how much the popular generic 120's
wweigh,so he can figure out how many boxes he has?
I need to know how much 20 (120's) weigh?


SANTA

  • Guest
thank you jacked
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2003, 12:55:00 AM »
my point exactly in an earlier post when a few jumped in my shit
                 SUPERHEATED
when any liquid has reached it's own boiling point, by being heated in a microwave,and theres no evidence of boiling ie no bubbles or oxygen being released.
if you let it sit undisturbed for a few minutes it will be ok to remove from the micro.


VideoEditor

  • Guest
SUPERHEATED when any liquid has reached it's...
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2003, 01:44:00 AM »

SUPERHEATED
when any liquid has reached it's own boiling point, by being heated in a microwave,and theres no evidence of boiling ie no bubbles or oxygen being released. If you let it sit undisturbed for a few minutes it will be ok to remove from the micro.


Ahhhhh it may be ok to remove from the microwave but it aint done.  Sorry but some things just were'nt made to bee done in a hurry.  If you have superheated the alcohol its not all evaporated so here we just did three bad things...

We overshot 105c
We still have alcohol in the mixture.
We are gonna let it cool down too much before filtering (because its superheated).

Really if I thought the mirco was the best choice I would of put it in, but its not. The mixture needs to come up to our target temp in an (external heat) normal amount of time to complete all the processes going on inside the beaker. Remember that mixture is evaporating, precipitating, re-crystalizing and scrubbing all at the same time. It needs the time to work properly. Nuke it and results will be inconsistent yeilds or gakked psuedo or you may get lucky . . .

I think the Geezmeister said it best:

There is a way to do this technique.
Do it EXACTLY THE WAY IT IS WRITTEN.
Do this ONE TIME just like it is written.

no solvent switching, no microwaving
if doing Red Hots make sure they are completely dried after de-red'n

-peace


autumn_lamb

  • Guest
low yield from redhots
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2003, 02:20:00 AM »
she doesn't understand this discussion of low yields regarding red hots. her yield was wonderful. she tells me that she extracted the most she ever has with this process than at any other time whenever she has tackled the ultra gaaky type of red hots.

mickyfinn

  • Guest
lucky pull
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2003, 02:50:00 AM »
SWIM's first run in the micro was performed watching the fluid for when the psuedo started crashing out. The solutions was boiling slowly at 40-50% power and then the crash began, temp was quickly taken...and it was immediately pulled and sent to charmin filter followed by MEK. Clean pull first time...second was less so.

SANTA

  • Guest
superheated post
« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2003, 03:20:00 AM »
video i was'nt even talking about this method or post i agree you did'nt mention it in the post. i apologize for bringing it up
i brought it up by replying to jacked's post simply verifying that superheating can be dangerous again i aplolgize to you
i did reply to one of your post considering the weight of generic 120's.


VideoEditor

  • Guest
chill
« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2003, 07:35:00 AM »
Santa wasnt bustin on ya dude, it was just a great example to make a point. lol


jose

  • Guest
thank you video..
« Reply #35 on: June 19, 2003, 07:54:00 AM »
..you keep those useless narco swine types struggling and
have made a giant leap for our cause.
---
NOW, swim
has problems with microwaving --can my trusty corning hotplate and visionware work as well for him if I let him borrow them?

also,IS there a sub for xylene!
swim can't handle the noxious fumes it gives off--ANYTHING-->but xylene---the slightest whiff and swim has real problems for days. And, yes swim has fume conrol, albeit not a full enclosed hood--yet!
---
thanks again for a kickass writeup and procedure. I do not have it down to the degree you do (near 100%) but damn is it
a great help to my sinus plagued grandmother who prefers the best

Now maybe swim can try the pure tyvek filter method as well to see if he gets those nice translucent needlesthat way
seem to think your way will become sop for many

what would we do without the HIVE !


geezmeister

  • Guest
Using the hotplate
« Reply #36 on: June 19, 2003, 08:09:00 AM »
I have what I consider to be a good intuitive understanding of why these solvents work together and understand completely why VideoEditor wants to heat to 105°C. While this method does precipitate the pseudo HCl in a solution of naptha and xylene, remember that the gakks are present in the solution with the pseudo.

In the microwave xylene clean technique, I was polishing up some previously extracted pseudo HCl. The bulk of the gakk was gone, and the method was used as a substitute for the first of two recrystalizations. The xylene could hold the gakk because there was not much gakk in the mix to start with. I cautioned that it worked with pseudo that was fairly clean already.

The other point to keep in mind is when the pseudo precipitates out of the solution. It precipitates out before anything else does. That means if there is a bigger gakk load, you want that gakk held in solution as long as you can. Keeping the solvent hot does that. VideoEditor figured out at by the time the naptha/xylene mix got to 105°C the alcohol would be gone but the solvent hot enough to hold the gakk in solution while the pseudo HCl was filtered out. You MUST filter while HOT. Get the pseudo out of the solution before gakk starts coming out, and rinse what might be in there with MEK.

This technique seems to me to be very well thought out. It seems to work very well. I really suggest to each person interested in this method to do it as written a few times and get a feel for it before you attempt to improve on it.
There is, in a way, a philosophy to this method that appeals to me-- a little bit of Zen, perhaps.

I have been fooled before with new techniques and discovered after my inital enthusiasm that they were not quite as effective as I first thought. Straight to Bee was like this-- PEG was still present in the pseudo unless it was taken out before the a/b. The tyvek membrane microwave extraction seemed very promising but far from universal. PEG in particular seemed to come over with the pseudo-- and PEG at the time was the new problem in the pills. The high yield of pseudo from this method gives me some pause and will until we have final results to compare. That is not a knock on this approach at all. Its is perhaps caution based on past experience. My hunch is this one works as advertised. I think we will know soon enough. I also think we should at least find out if it works as written before we start modifying it.


SHORTY

  • Guest
Microwaves would only heat the alcohol though
« Reply #37 on: June 19, 2003, 10:43:00 AM »
it is possible to overshoot 105c and start to fry the psuedo.

Since the microwaves do not have any effect on non polar solvents, then wouldn't the heat of the solution stop rising as soon as the alcohol boiled off?  The alcohol would be the only thing in there that would heated by the microwaves.  Therefore, wouldn't it bee impossible to overheat it? 

However, it would most likely be underheated, no matter how long it was in the micro.  Which would cause the gaak to precipate before you have a chance to filter the pseudo out right? 
Makes sense and besides, so far it works as written(on hotplate)anyways. 

I still am a little weiry about the micro after my last bumping episode so the hotplate suits me fine.


chronic_cook

  • Guest
Well, I agree with Geez.
« Reply #38 on: June 19, 2003, 03:44:00 PM »
Well, I agree with Geez. This is defanitly a wonderful break-through in pill extraction. but I'm still going to be skepticle, but as far as simplicity it don't get any easier! :) I just want to wait until the str8 2 E has been beaten with a hammer maybe i can freeload some good info  ;)

xboXer

  • Guest
wow
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2003, 08:26:00 AM »
We'll givr-a-try.

FUNNY...used to be TOLUENE, now its xylene.
used to be ACETONE, now its M.E.K.

and back in the day, vm&p would get you a weeks subscription to flame magazine, possibly earning a roast from 'flaming maggot' himself... My how the times change. (sigh)