Author Topic: Alternative to Nef  (Read 3591 times)

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WizardX

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Alternative to Nef
« on: June 02, 2004, 05:21:00 AM »
An alternative to the Nef reaction to make P2P.

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/cgi-bin/htsearch?config=&restrict=&exclude=&words=Nef


https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/nef.html




SYNTHESIS OF 1,4-DIKETONES FROM SILYL ENOL ETHERS AND NITROOLEFINS

http://www.orgsyn.org/orgsyn/prep.asp?prep=cv7p0414



If cyclohexene is used instead of trimethylsiloxy-1-cyclohexene, you can make the following: cyclohexane acetone, C6H11-CH2-C(=O)-CH3

DEHYDROGENATION WITH Pd/C OR Pt/C CATALYSTS 

http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/WizardX/X1/propylhexedrine.html



ning

  • Guest
Heat with sulfur?
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2004, 05:58:00 AM »
I wonder how well the old-school dehydrogenation methods like that would work here....


Nicodem

  • Guest
If cyclohexene is used instead of ...
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2004, 06:26:00 PM »
If cyclohexene is used instead of trimethylsiloxy-1-cyclohexene, you can make the following: cyclohexane acetone, C6H11-CH2-C(=O)-CH3


No, it wont work. That reaction is the equivalent of the Michael addition of a ketone (cyclohexanone) to 2-nitropropene. Plain ketones are not nucleophylic enough, but their trimethylsilyl derivatives are. Hence the O-silylated ketones are used in this Org. Synth. paper.
But alkenes like cyclohexene cannot add on the 2-nitropropene's double bond.


WizardX

  • Guest
Test!
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2004, 04:36:00 AM »
Nicodem: Tell me if this reaction is possible?

CH2=CH-C(=O)-CH3 + (CH3CH2)2NH ==>> ?

CH2=CH-C(=O)-CH3 is methyl vinyl ketone

(CH3CH2)2NH is diethylamine



No, it wont work. That reaction is the equivalent of the Michael addition of a ketone (cyclohexanone) to 2-nitropropene. Plain ketones are not nucleophylic enough, but their trimethylsilyl derivatives are. Hence the O-silylated ketones are used in this Org. Synth. paper.




What about this?  BENZALACETONE

http://www.orgsyn.org/orgsyn/prep.asp?prep=cv1p0077



Nicodem

  • Guest
Ketones and ketones
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2004, 10:17:00 AM »
Off course diethylamine adds on the double bond of methyl vinyl ketone yielding Et2N-CH2-CH2-CO-CH3 but I said "nuclephylic" while methyl vinyl ketone is an electrophyle in this reaction.
There are ketones that can bee nucleophylic enough for the addition on 2-nitropropene. 1,3-diketones for example, their deprotonated form actually, and they don't even need a basic catalyst. Therefore, even better than these O-TMS masked ketones (SnCl4 is a Lewis acid for 2-nitropropene activation). But I said "plain ketones", meaning simple ones like cyclohexanone in our case.

You can see that benzalacetone synthesis requires more drastic conditions. That is exactly because acetone is not nucleophylic enough. Only its enolate is.

Therefore, I guess if you make a cyclohexy Grignard you can then add it to CH2=CH(NO2)-Me and obtain the wanted 1-cyclohexyl-2-nitropropane. But cyclohexene does not have a chance. (Though if you go trough the trouble of preparing the Grignard you might make some phenyl Grignard and directly get to 1-phenyl-2-nitropropane.)

EDIT:
WizardX, may I propose an alternative to your nice idea of last step dehydrogenation to form the amphetamine’s phenyl? I like the idea because it is so un-orthodox, one of those that usually come to mind only as the last possibility.

Scheme 1.
The alkylations of acetoacetates and other 1,3-dicarbonyl compounds are straightforward. I don’t have any example of this specific preparation at hand but I found an example of 65% yield when using izobutylbromide in the Organikum book and 50% yield with isopropyl iodide. The yields with these secondary halides are however lower than with the primary ones due to the concurrent HX elimination reaction or steric hindrance. Cyclohexyl-X can bee of course prepared from cyclohexanol by one of the many methods known at The Hive: the KI/H3PO4 method; alcohol bromination with HBr; esterification with TsOH …
The hydrolysis/decarboxylation step is very simple and can bee done either in one (reflux in 20% HCl until the CO2 effervescence ends – few hours) or two steps (hydrolysis with NaOH and decarboxylative vacuum distillation).
The amination of this ketone can bee done by most of the same methods that also proved successful for P2P, following by the known dehydrogenation to obtain the wanted product.

Scheme 2
I could not help myself proposing a more funny way to meth. The first and second steps are analogous to those in scheme 1 except for an allylic (pseudo)halogenide like cyclohex-3-yl-bromide being used. Just as a comparative example, Organikum reports a yield of 85% when using allylbromide for acetoacetates alkylation.
The only true difference is that the amination and dehydrogenation are done in the same step. This is based on the cyclohexene rings being excellent hydrogen donors for CTH reductions as well as yielding benzene ring in the same time. Well, you don’t have to take this one too seriously but it looks cool nevertheless.



WizardX

  • Guest
Good!
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2004, 08:52:00 AM »

Off course diethylamine adds on the double bond of methyl vinyl ketone yielding Et2N-CH2-CH2-CO-CH3 but I said "nuclephylic" while methyl vinyl ketone is an electrophyle in this reaction.




Correct! Very good so far.

I'll add more on this subject when I get more free time to myself during the week.


ning

  • Guest
Nicodem
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2004, 07:40:00 PM »
That's pretty delightful! I am truly inspired!


WizardX

  • Guest
Michael Reaction
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2004, 08:30:00 AM »


Nicodem: This is the way I see it?


Therefore, I guess if you make a cyclohexy Grignard you can then add it to CH2=CH(NO2)-Me and obtain the wanted 1-cyclohexyl-2-nitropropane. But cyclohexene does not have a chance. (Though if you go trough the trouble of preparing the Grignard you might make some phenyl Grignard and directly get to 1-phenyl-2-nitropropane.)




I agree! But not with the comment about, "But cyclohexene does not have a chance".

As for the Scheme 1 & Scheme 2 synthesis proposals, I think your comment about making the phenyl Grignard and directly get to 1-phenyl-2-nitropropane is better.


Nicodem

  • Guest
O-TMS-enol=good nucleophyle / alkene=no good
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2004, 01:42:00 PM »
WizardX: I agree with your interpretation though I would not use the words “carbocation/carboanion” as there is no real (stable) ionic center. In these cases terminology like electron density or nucleophylic/electrophylic positions is prefered but this is not important.
What is important is that alkenes are way weaker nucleophyles than O-TMS-ketones and have no possibility of forming a stable intermediate in the first step of this reaction’s mechanism. You should ask yourself why the authors didn’t rapport any reaction with any alkene. Did you find any such example in the literature? I bet you did not.

As for the Scheme 1 & Scheme 2 synthesis proposals, I think your comment about making the phenyl Grignard and directly get to 1-phenyl-2-nitropropane is better.

You must be joking  :(
Have you any idea of how difficult it is for some to obtain nitroethane, convert it to nitropropene, prepare the phenyl Grignard (!) and then perform a reaction that surely gives low yields due the side reactions (some of the Mg salt of 1-phenyl-2-nitropropane quite probably adds to the nitropropene even though the PhMgX is a much stronger nuclophyle)?
If the dehydrogenation described on your homepage works good (maybe even with the more available 5% Pd-C), than making hexahydro-P2P from cyclohexanol is a nice option especially considering that it can bee done in one day and with cheap (and quite OTC) compounds.


ning

  • Guest
It may not be necessary to use Pd/C
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2004, 06:12:00 PM »
As far as I know, there's a world of difference between trying to aromatize a cyclohexane and a cyclohexene.

Probably, one could use TCCA or NCS/NBS for the purpose.
the ring would be halogenated alpha to the double bond (allylic), and because of conjugation, would dehydrohalogenate equally easily. Then the cycle would repeat once more, and stop. Compound aromatized.  :)

Also, the old trick of heating with sulfur might work at much lower temperature than normally, for similar reason.
If it works at lower than 100 C, perhaps one could place a little sulfur and H2O2 in a beaker and reflux. The H2O2 would recycle the sulfur from H2S formed.

In fact, H2O2 and some metal catalyst could work very nicely. Perhaps Fe(II)<->Fe(III) system, or Cu, or Mn. I think these systems imitate the cytochrome to some degree, which I believe generates O radicals, which should be able to attack the allylic position too.

Should try, Nicodem! get some cyclohexene and Fe(OH)2 or KMnO4 or CuSO4 and peroxide, and stir for awhile, see if you can smell benzene!

I think that if one generated the cyclohexenyl-2-propanone, it could be epoxidized or converted to a diol or chlorohydrin with HOCl or H2O2, then dehydrated to give a dihydrophenyl-2-propanone. If methylamine is reacted with this and the whole shebang heated, I will bet my boots that it will aromatize for you perfectly, no Pd/C necesary.













Molecule:

one ("C1=C(CCCC1)CC(C)=O>>C1(O)C(Cl)(CCCC1)CC(C)=O")














Molecule:

two ("C1(O)C(Cl)(CCCC1)CC(C)=O>>C1=C(C=CCC1)CC(C)=O")














Molecule:

three ("C1=C(C=CCC1)CC(C)=O>>C1=C(C=CCC1)CC(C)=NC")














Molecule:

four ("C1=C(C=CCC1)CC(C)=NC>>C1=C(C=CC=C1)CC(C)NC")



Well, whatever. Does it seem feasible?


Nicodem

  • Guest
Aromatization
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2004, 09:06:00 PM »
Ning, its no problem to aromatize the N-methyl-1-cyclohexenyl-isopropylamine. As you saw I even proposed to do the amination and aromatization in the same step. But even if an amination is done separately, with NaBH4 for example, I’m sure the sulfur method you mention would work. The only problem is getting the precursor cyclohex-2-enyl-halide (for the scheme 2).

Obviously it is much easier to use cyclohexanol and esterify it with TsOH, for example (as in scheme 1). But this makes the aromatization step much harder and the old trick with sulfur does not work anymore.


WizardX

  • Guest
2-NITROPROPENE
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2004, 03:20:00 AM »
Nicodem: 2-NITROPROPENE is made from the dehydration of 2-nitro-1-propanol.

http://www.orgsyn.org/orgsyn/prep.asp?prep=cv7p0396


2-nitro-1-propanol: The checkers purchased 2-nitro-1-propanol (ca. 98% purity) from EGA-Aldrich and used it without further purification. The submitters prepared this reagent from nitroethane and formalin according to the procedure of Feuer,3 yield 70–75%, bp 79–80°C (5 mm).

Although pure 2-nitropropene may be stored in a freezer as a low-melting solid for several weeks, it is recommended to prepare it immediately before use since it tends to polymerize and to darken slowly on storage. 2-Nitropropene polymerizes readily in the presence of a trace of alkali.


I'm sure you can find other synthesis routes to make 2-nitro-1-propanol and 2-nitropropene.




What is important is that alkenes are way weaker nucleophyles than O-TMS-ketones and have no possibility of forming a stable intermediate in the first step of this reaction’s mechanism. You should ask yourself why the authors didn’t support any reaction with any alkene. Did you find any such example in the literature? I bet you did not.




You should ask yourself why the authors didn’t support any reaction with any alkene.

It's obvious that the O-TMS-ketones forms a MORE STABLE nucleophilic (carboanion) and hence greater yield. This is without question, and one would look at ALL synthesis routes.
If your looking for a maximum yield of the desired product then PhMgX + 2-nitropropene.

Did you find any such example in the literature? I bet you did not.

Not in this particular literature, but I haven't sited the entire reference. I have references of 2-nitropropene in Friedel-Crafts reaction with cycloalkene.

You may find this interesting: CONJUGATE ALLYLATION OF á,â-ENONES WITH ALLYLSILANES PROMOTED BY TITANIUM TETRACHLORIDE.

http://www.orgsyn.org/orgsyn/prep.asp?prep=cv7p0443