importation from china-rip off?

[del72]

Ok I hope that this does not count as naming sources since I will not name any specifically, but I have an important question. If this post reveals to much than feel free to delete it(like I had to give the go ahead)

FIRST OFF PLEASE refrain from posting a long string of warnings about the sketchy-ness of importing precursers. My friend will only be manufacturing legal research chems, in a legitimate rental lab space, fully legimate in everyway, so he does not care one bit if he raises red flags. As far as he is concerned the feds are welcome to come have dinner at the lab and then investigate it for signs of wrongdoing.

Now my question is this, there are a number of chinese companies that sell products which are legal here, but next to impossible to obtain reliably in the states. 2CH is one example. Now what my friend has noticed is that virtually all of the chinese chemical suppliers that carry his products only accept payment via wire transfer! None of them accept credit cards or any slightly more secure form of payment. The few companies seemed legit as in they had presentable websites and the line of questions asked of my friend while he was enquiring about a product would seem irrelevant if they were going to just snag his cash. But perhaps this is part of their con.  

So I am wondering if ANYBODY has, or knows of anybody who has succesfully ordered from any chinese firm that only accepts wire transfer as payment?

My friend will make a small order if he gets no feedback, one small enough that if he gets ripped off it will not be a big deal, however if there are any bees or friends of bees who have tried this and been ripped off then I would sure like to know before my friend sends the payment(however small it may be).    Also if anybody HAS ordered from a chinese company that only accepts wire transfer I am curious to know about how long it took for your product to arrive(granted every company is different-but you know all those chinese do business the same )


Thanks ahead of time, and just a reminder PLEASE no warnings about importation, as long as the company is legit, and my friends company and products are legit than red flags are no concerne.

[methyl_ethyl]

I am not sure if this will help you but, I am preety sure every time I have ordered Anything from, Malaysia, China, Kuala Lumpur[Edit]which is in Malaysia please note.   , Phillipines, etc. it has always been through wire transfer, Once I established a relationship with the companies, I ordered just about anything I wanted, quite foolishly actually.  There was never a problem, I must note that this was prior to 9/11 and am not sure, if anything  has changed since then.  I must say that I miss doing business with that part of the world.  Yeah I was very sketched out the first time I placed an order via wire transfer, but you could not beat the pricing, and service that the part of the world in question had to offer, at least the connections I had.  Things have changed much since then I am sure.  I remember ordering certain quantities of product, and getting Free product for being such a good customer.  If there was any problem with my order, I would be notified immediately.  I even ordered a product under "rush" delivery, I immediately recieved and e-mail stating that rushed products ordered from my part of the country were looked at under a very fine eye.  I was allowed to change my order to regular delivery and had no problems what so ever.  Now that is service....     Unfortunately I have been out of that loop for some time now....   ..

Good Luck to you,

much_love,

methyl_ethyl

[nitrous351]

First off, I have to start by saying that the "legal" research only chemicals are becoming more and more stepped on by the DEA. However legal your friend may believe them to bee, the DEA could very well find a way to call them analogs of a scheduled substance. So, bee careful, and I hope your friend has EVERY angle worked out, including the retention of a good criminal lawyer.
With that aside, I sure as hell wouldn't send money to an unknown company via wire transfer. If you have balls, go ahead with your plan and make a small order first. But I would be prepared to hope for the best and expect the worst. Ask yourself this question: Why wouldn't a reputable business accept a more secure means of payment? Surely foreign companies are set up for credit cards right? I don't know much about this foreign ordering stuff, but that's my 2 cents. I would bee skeptical to say the least.

[methyl_ethyl]

Why wouldn't a reputable business accept a more secure means of payment? Surely foreign companies are set up for credit cards right?

     IMHO If I was a foreign supplier of goods, I would utilize western union.  I feel much safer using western union than using a credit card.  If you are not familiar, when you order via western union, you have to notify the receiver of the MTCN (Money transfer control number)  Without this number the receiver can not gain access to funds.  If you give a questionable source your credit card number, you may be fucked to the limit of your credit.....   .   I actually prefer, wire transfers, if the company is legit like he says, I would order small quantities of product first, get a reputation, in my experience, Asian markets, will do all they can to keep you as a customer.  And as far as customs goes, I used to order seriously watched chems, list 1, CII, and the like, and they would arrive mislabeled, without even asking for them to bee...     Of course all transactions were taken from a business account prior 9/11.  I personally do not order anything at all unless I have a Legit use for it.  I would assume if one were to order from a personal account there may be more scrutiny, however, these transactions take place every day, thousands of them.  Regardless, these days I personally would not order anything, I do not have a legit use for.  That is just my opinion.  If everyone felt this way there would be no clandestine chemistry, so bee smart, utilize the resources, available to you.   Synth On y'all....   .....

[moedank]

"why are you importing this from a unsure source. Is that how you run your "lab". "  They can prob. get you in court just on that.  ALWAYS remember just cause it isnt legal....dont mean "they"(government)wont find a reason to fry your ass for it. "They" will do whatever they want, when they want, and "fuck you" for asking questions is what "they" will say........we arent that far from the IRAQ government............

lets just say you got all this shit straight!


Now.........If they have what you need whats wasting $200-$1000(if you got it, you got it) to check a source. If you found it on the web thats your fault. The dea or feds dont have time to waste on someone bringing in small amounts of shit.  I would worry about 50, 25gals of sass, but if you have a legit reason FUCK EM ALL. YOU LOSE SOME YOU WIN SOME.....FUCK EM........

dont be suprised to see a follow up visit from the DEA or similar government body, 2wks to 2years after the fact to "explain" why you bought what you did.

Legit dont count when your flask test positive for MDMA.......or whatever.......

[Unobtainium]

Why wouldn't a reputable business accept a more secure means of payment? Surely foreign companies are set up for credit cards right?

Wrong. Despite what American Express wants you to believe, they are not everywhere you want to be. Neither is Visa or MasterCard. China, if you'll recall, is not a capitalist society. Their credit system is controlled by the central bank and they do not accept Visa.

There are very few companies in China that accept foriegn credit cards. Most that do are tourist related businesses, many of which have their credit card processing done in a non-chinese bank.

Visa and JCP (japanese credit card company) have just recently started taking an interest in the Chinese market. But it will be a long time before the government gives them free reign.

Welcome to the world of international business where not everyone does things the way the United States does. Wire transfers are very common. Even between the US and Europe, you are more than likely going to use a wire transfer instead of a credit card.

[ragnaroekk]

There is a (rather small) risk left always, but it´s not higher as if ordering something in europe or US I believe. Choosing a company which has been some time around and not been founded just yesterday maybe a good idea.
I am with methyl_ethyl in questions of customer service. Asia companies (except japanese) are unbeatable here if one is able to respect the mentality, say never be unfriendly or even accusing!
My experiences come from electronics business several years ago, there won´t be much difference I believe.

The question why they don´t use other other ways of payment? Wire transfer is fast, relieable and very personal in the way of handling, say it comes next to handing over the money "in persona". And regarding the fraud on credit cards it seems to me only rational to stay away from them. The way things are handled in USA (and EU) is not automatically the safest way this can be done and far from being the best one.
Anyways, I never encountered problems related to wire transfer payment.

Some smaller orders in advance and splitting orders - also for not risking loss on transportation - is reasonable and advised.

Btw. there are several forums on trading with asia on the net I believe. Might be worth a look?

addon:
it is necessary to clear specifications of the desired product to the point. But thats necessary everwhere I believe and asian companies are much easier to pin on a common third party definition than western companies which hold tight on own "specifications" which say more or less they can deliver near everything looking somehow like what you have ordered.

[del72]

"first thing that the DEA is going to ask....... "
Let the fuckers ask, he will tell them the truth he was not doing anything illegal anyways.
                                                                                       
                                                                                                               

  "why are you importing this from a unsure source. Is that how you  run your "lab". "  They can prob. get you in court just on that.  ALWAYS remember just cause it isnt legal..."

well the short answer is because it is virtually impossible to come by in the US. There is one US supplier that I know of for this chemical and they are out of stock for a couple weeks.     How do you define unsure source??!! Just because he has not ordered from them before? Any company you have ever ordered from there was a first time order, if I used your logic I would never have bought anything in my life!  And no they can not get him in court just for that I garuntee your career as a chemist would become much easier if you brushed up on your law a little bit.  They cannot just arrest you for no reason(Sure in a country full of millions of people it has happened but 98% of the time there needs to be a crime committed and selling legal chems aint a crime my friend! All of you people warning about the analog act are speaking out of pure ignorance for the law, that is why I asked it to not even be addressed, because some people have only read the original federal analog act which states that a chem is an analog if it is similar in effect or structure, which would suck indeed but had you people done your homework you would have found out that there have been numerous court rulings that there must be intent to consume proven for you to be charged under the analog act. There absolutly MUST be proof that you intended it for human consumption, and since my friend does not then he is not worried.


government............lets just say you got all this shit straight! Now.........If they have what you need whats wasting $200-$1000(ifyou got it, you got it) to check a source. If you found it on the web thats your fault. The dea or feds dont have time to waste on someone bringing in small amounts of shit.  I would worry about 50, 25gals of sass, but if you have a legit reason FUCK EM ALL. YOU LOSE SOME YOU WIN SOME.....FUCK EM........  dont be suprised to see a follow up visit from the DEA or similar fact to "explain" why you bought what you did.Legit dont count when your flask test positive for MDMA.......or whatever....... 

Well first off there will be no MDMA found in the flask because all products will be legal. Second the product ordered is LEGAL. Third if the DEA comes knocking a few months later my friend would tell them the truth and perhaps show them around the lab or something.......but I would not expect the DEA to come knocking at my friends door because it is really not a big deal, a couple hundred grams of a legal chemical, sold to a licenced and legal company and used to produce legal substances, he does not expect a visit nor fear one.  Ever notice how many people on this board complain about feds showing up at their house because they bought a legal chemical?? NONE that I have seen and we have 5000 members.

You are right about dropping the cash just to check it out though- fuckem!  $500 dollars is worth the risk(the risk being the company not fullfilling the order NOT legal risk as there is none). They do not seem sketchy at all the only reason I posted this is because the wire transfer thing seemed odd to me, but as fellow bees pointed out this is an asia thing.

See this is why I begged that people would leave the legal risk thing alone I did not want to explain all this shit. I am sure that the lawyer that my friend consulted about the legality of this business in this state is a tad more credible when it comes to law than anybody on this board, so that is why I was not interested in hearing these arguments against this.

In regards to renting labs. I think that it is wise for all people to try and send imported/or domestic products to another address and name. This way if the package does get seized and the feds care enough to do anything about it they will not be able to trace it back to the lab, if you are making mdma then you may want to worry about ordering the necessary ketones from out of the country, if you are making meth then it is unwise to try and import a kilo of ephedrine and a kilo of RP.  If you are making 2,5 (dimethoxyphenylethyl)phthalimide, or 2cc then I would not worry worry at all. I know for a fact that 99% of all rc companies in the us are importing this stuff for resale. If you can make a few of their products then you can undercut anybodies price and severely bank.

Sorry to be a jerk about it, I know you are trying to help,
but seriously ordering chemicals is not as big a deal as you would think, I have had friends walk into the labstore, ask for a couple hundred grams of iodine(convicted drug felon as well) and he has never been questioned about this, so being as though my friend is not even ordering a product from the dea's list of regulated list 1 and 2 chems to have imported then I will be legal and unssctechy.



Hovever thanks much to the guys who answered this one coolheadedly. That is exactly what I needed to know...whether or not it is normal for them to request wire transfers in asia. Now that a few bees who have experience dealing with these people replied I am confident that the few companies that my friend found will come through.

SO he will not be in legal trouble at all, if the product does not arrive then it does not arrive. Big deal. it was a small order anyway, if it does arrive then then there is one extraordinary company sellign interesting stuff thats for sure.

[del72]

Yes methylethyl, he asked to have overnight shipping as well and they told him not to.  My buddy agrees- best customer service ever, worse english grammer.

[abolt]

I posted this in the couch and I'll post it here in case you didn't see it

Post 449167 (not existing)

Bee careful.

It

[methyl_ethyl]

Yes methylethyl, he asked to have overnight shipping as well and they told him not to.  My buddy agrees- best customer service ever, worse english grammer.

     HA, I know it, back in the day I would receive e-mails, from Asian suppliers, and spend hours trying to decipher the damn, thing. I wished I would have saved some of them, they really were hilarious.  I have never dealt with a population that tried so hard to keep me happy, and always came through, with unprecidented customer service.
     The worst was when they were trying to convey their message in a roundabout way, that coupled with their terrible grammar, usage, and verbage, yielded an incomprehensible, conglomeration, of drivel.  But at least they tried,    and I had fun trying to figure out just what the fuck they were trying to tell me....

    Well sounds like y'all are runnin a good operation, I like to see that.  Good luck.....

[ragnaroekk]

You might consider comparing prices from asia companies to western companies. Ordering from Sigma Aldrich or similar is only for those who already made their criminal profits, say pharmaceutic companies. I couldn´t afford it - if they would deliver to me, LOL...

And I trust him so he said it´s for legal business - why not? It is not on me to distrust anybody and to be nosy. I would have trusted you also Hammer. Your last post makes me believe I should think about this perhaps......

[methyl_ethyl]

If your freinds lab is legit and it doesn't matter why not buy right here in the US >?

     Not to speak for del72 or anything, however del72 clearly stated: well the short answer is because it is virtually impossible to come by in the US. There is one US supplier that I know of for this chemical and they are out of stock for a couple weeks.

     I think this is the answer to your question.  IMO

much_love

methyl_ethyl

[methyl_ethyl]

Yeah and what ragnarorekk said, Sigma is very expensive, and if you are not incorporated, have trade references along with bank references, they will laugh in your face.  Not to mention they tack on fees for everygoddamn thing imaginable, you could seriously accrue more fees, than what your product costs.  A few years ago (from memory) do not quote me on this, 20.00 USD  hazardous material handling fee, 50.00 USD DEA handling fee for any listed or controlled substance, tack that on top of freight, glass, shipping and handling fees, and you have just wasted a good amount of money.  I would never order from them for my personal use, but corporate puchasing,  I go through them weekly!!!!  It aint my dollar.....   


much_love

methyl_ethyl

[chemicalE]

You want something hard to find and your own company can't legitimately place a purchase order with a domestic supplier?

Then its a gamble. Wire transfer in USD is supposedly common and a few 1000 USD can be a lot in Asia for some companies or people that just don't want to work in those rice fields.

Maybe test the waters with sample price requests and quotes for annual requirements of suitable size quantity?

Can they supply a credible COA in advance?

Promise of good future business may secure your smaller requirement. You may not need that 25kg drum of 20 years after all. You're the customer and they just want your USD.

Just don't forget about customs, sorry no refund and you get the 20 years minus the drum.

Didn't have time to read the whole thread, so excuse my irrelevant comments.  

Don't PM for any sources because I don't have any. Some effort can yield quite interesting sites.

chemE

[FlyBoy]