Author Topic: DMT (surpise?)/ Mannich condensation  (Read 2905 times)

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meme

  • Guest
DMT (surpise?)/ Mannich condensation
« on: March 12, 2002, 07:45:00 AM »
Yep, folks, another theoretcal DMT post   ::)  .

This one with some refs  ;)  .

OK, some hunting around during spring break led me here:

Indole + CH2O + Dimethylamine __> gramine at 80%

(H.R. Snyder, C.W. Smith, and J.H Stewert, J. Amer. Chem. Soc., 66.  200 (1944).)

Indole + CH3CH0 + isopropylamine __> n-isopropyl tryptamine with a 39-60% yield

(H.R. Snyder and D.S. Matteson, J. Amer. Chem. Soc., 79, 2217 (1957) )

So, Does anyone see a problem, beside yield, with

indole + acetaldehyde + dma __> DMT ?

Indole and dimethylamine are very easily acquired.

Acetaldehyde not too hard, either.

Alanine yields acetaldehyde (25-35%), if heated in quinoline, n,n-dimethoxy-p-toluidine, or aniline, the latter of which produces the Schiff base, and must be hydrolized.  Not the best way to go about it, though, IMVHO.

(A. Schonberg et al., J. Chem. Soc., 58, 2430 (1936)

Acetaldehyde can also be produced from ethylene

ethylene + PdCl2 + H2O__> acetaldehyde + Pd + HCl

"Acetaldehyde is obtained from ethylene in excellent yield, and this is the most attractive method of industrial synthesis since the metallic palladium formed in the reaction can be regenerated in atmostpheric oxygen" (Weygand 316)

Weygand & Hilgetag. Preperative Organic Chemestry, John Wiley and Sons.  New York, 1972.

No barbed wire can cage a bee.

Rhodium

  • Guest
Re: DMT (surpise?)/ Mannich condensation
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2002, 10:05:00 AM »
Acetaldehyde does not form tryptamines with indole/dimethylamine, but instead 3-Indolyl-CH(CH3)-CH2-N(CH3)2, gramine with a methyl group sticking out from the carbon atom between the indole 3-position and the amine. In the document

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/it-290.html

at my page you can find instructions for turning gramine into -alkyltryptamines.

PrimoPyro

  • Guest
Re: DMT (surpise?)/ Mannich condensation
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2002, 08:28:00 PM »
The simplest way to synthesize ethanal is by the oxidation of ethanol, a highly abundant, nonsuspicious laboratory solvent and human intoxicant.  ;)

Vivent Longtemps La Ruche!

meme

  • Guest
Mexamine to 5meo-gramine?
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2002, 02:13:00 PM »
Could one use 5-meotryptamine (Mexamine) to produce to 5meo analogue of Gramine?

No barbed wire can cage a bee.

Rhodium

  • Guest
5-MeO-Gramine
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2002, 11:49:00 PM »
No, that is not easily done. Mexamine has a -CH2CH2NH2 side chain on the indole nucleus, while gramines have a -CH2-N(CH3)2 side chain. Chain shortening is not easy. Why would you want to do that? Use mexamine as a starting point for a 5-MeO-AMT derivative?

meme

  • Guest
5meo grmaine, a-M mexamine
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2002, 07:30:00 AM »
OK, new rule for meme, I'm not to post until I have writtin out my question/post in full and debugged it.
:-[


Of course that won't work.  But you are correct in your presumptions of my question.

So if I started from 5meo indole, through the gramine derivitive, I could end up with 5meo amt analogues, right?

And following the routes in TiHKAL for NET, and NiPT, starting with Mexamine, I could produce the n-alkylated, 5meo analogues, right?

No barbed wire can cage a bee.

Rhodium

  • Guest
5-MeO-indole to 5-MeO-gramine
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2002, 11:04:00 AM »
Yes, you can treat 5-MeO-Indole with dimethylamine/formaldehyde to get 5-MeO-Gramine (3-(dimethylaminomethyl)-5-Methoxyindole) in high yield, but as you can see on my page, the transformation of gramines to tryptamines gives very low yields.

locrian

  • Guest
Reply to '5-MeO-indole to 5-MeO-gramine'
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2002, 01:38:00 AM »
Can someone comment on the qualitative effects of 5-Meo-AMT?  I know what AMT is like, but the 5-Meo version would probably be much more potent.  Still though, why does homeboy online charge $400/g?  WTF?  What would make it worth that (considering virtually all the other shit is in the $125 range)? 

We need new drugs.

Rhodium

  • Guest
price
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2002, 02:48:00 AM »
I guess the potency makes for the higher price. People like that actually charge you per dose, not per gram.

311311311

  • Guest
Relativity
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2002, 01:08:00 PM »
5meoamt=2$ per dose
AMT=over 5$ per dose

locrian

  • Guest
Reply to 'Relativity'
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2002, 08:28:00 PM »
I see ...well I have experience with neither, but have tried 5-Meo-DMT as well as nn-DMT and even though the 5-Meo-DMT is more potent as expected of a 5-Methoxy, it doesn't seem as intense, still mind blowing, but different.  Like it didn't completely shut down ALL sensory input, some but not all.  More like K.  There's nothing like taking a hugh hit of DMT and going into the depths of sensory deprivation elf land. 

We need new drugs.