The Vespiary

The Hive => Methods Discourse => Topic started by: Vibrating_Lights on August 12, 2002, 01:49:00 PM

Title: Nitro styrene bases?
Post by: Vibrating_Lights on August 12, 2002, 01:49:00 PM
Can sodium carbonate be used as an alternative to sodium acetate in the production of 2,5DMNS with 2,5DNB and Nitromethane?  And must it be anhydrous.  If so could anhydrous sodium acetate be made via GAA and Na2CO2.
!!!!!!!1I buttfucked your daughter!!!!!!!!1..............Vl_
Title: Neither sodium acetate or carbonate is suitable.
Post by: Rhodium on August 12, 2002, 03:17:00 PM
Neither sodium acetate or carbonate is suitable. You need ammonium acetate or another amine.
Title: then
Post by: Vibrating_Lights on August 12, 2002, 05:03:00 PM
So anhydrous NH3 into GAA.  What was I thinking.  Is it safe to bubble Nh3 into a anhydrous acid.
Vl_
!!!!!!!1I buttfucked your daughter!!!!!!!!1..............Vl_
Title: Bubbling NH3 into GAA sounds a bit complicated.
Post by: Mountain_Girl on August 12, 2002, 11:21:00 PM
Bubbling NH3 into GAA sounds a bit complicated. I'd think it'd be easier to neutralize something like ammonium hydroxide ('household ammonia') with GAA,
NH4OH + HOAc __> NH4OAc + H2O.

Actually, ammonium carbonate (which my pharmacist sells for some reason) would be better cos then you should be able to judge the neutralizzzzzation point when the stuff stops fizzing (also volumetrically more efficient),
(NH4)2 CO3+ 2HOAc __> 2NH4OAc + H2O + CO2.
Oh, just checked: "Ammonium carbonate" is usually a mixture of carbonate, bicarbonate, sesquicarbonate & carbamate. Should still produce the acetate though.

All the above should apply in analogous fashion for sodium acetate btw.

Beware of posts that use the word 'should' a lot.

mmm...all this stuff is probably in TFSE...
ah I'll post it anyway..
Title: anhydrous regents
Post by: Vibrating_Lights on August 13, 2002, 01:15:00 PM
How important is the use of anhydrous regents in this type of synthesis.  This was the main concern.  I think i've herd somewhere that h2o gets locked deep inside these crystals making it impossible to make them anhydrous.  Hence why NH3+GAA was planned.
??
VL_
!!!!!!!1I buttfucked your daughter!!!!!!!!1..............Vl_
Title: To dry or not to dry or to use it all
Post by: Mountain_Girl on August 13, 2002, 11:51:00 PM
Well I was kinda wondering if drying the stuff by boiling off the water would be a problem (i.e. would it  decompose to NH3 & CO2?). The 1st few pages of the FSE revealed:

Some info on Ammonium Acetate Preparation __>

Post 331788 (missing)

(hookedonhydro: "hrm", Methods Discourse)

Post 308912 (https://www.thevespiary.org/talk/index.php?topic=9832.msg30891200#msg30891200)

(Rhodium: "ammonium acetate and ammonia", Methods Discourse)

Beaker's claim that the stuff doesn't have to be perfectly dry anyway (I would trust him/her) __>

Post 342749 (missing)

(Beaker: "Henry Condensation Questions", Newbee Forum)

But most important, what may render this entire thread irrelevant is this post that I bookmarked long ago __>

Post 320904 (https://www.thevespiary.org/talk/index.php?topic=8824.msg32090400#msg32090400)

(Rhodium: "2,5-Dimethoxynitrostyrene w/ NaOH catalyst", Methods Discourse)

[Frankly I should have just said UTFSE on this one, but this way we both learnt something. Also, I suffer from southern (hemisphere) hospitality  :) ]
Title: Moving on up...To that delux apartment in the sky
Post by: Vibrating_Lights on August 14, 2002, 05:48:00 AM
Damn it really is all there. Thank you for sparing me the UTFSE. Every day looks a little brighter. 2Cx :-[  ;)

So much game I could sell a hooker some pussy
Vl_